Obligatos vs. Permanents

Snarf · #1 04-29-2007, 01:41 PM

Hey, I'm looking for a hybrid string for my Upton lam. On it right now are Spiro middels, but I'll be starting classical training soon, and need something that can do both pizz and arco well. Obligatos have been suggested several times, but I'm concerned about excessive flexibility under the bow, and the potential for the windings to come undone. I'm interested by the permanents, they seem to be regarded as somewhat higher tension than the obligatos, with more brightness, and are also good for jazz. Can anyone offer up any opinions on the Perms vs. Obligatos?

Thanks.

jazz bass guy · #2 04-29-2007, 03:25 PM

I have been using Obligatos for the last three years, and I have never had any problems with the windings. I am not sure what you mean by "excessive flexibility". They are perhaps lower in tension than most steel strings, but not as low as gut. I don't find them especially bright, either.

KL

dchan · #3 04-29-2007, 08:36 PM

I suggest you wait a month or so for the Evah Pirazzi to come out. There will definitely be reviews on this Forum.

It might be a really good string for all we know, maybe better than the Obligato. Wait and see.

TroyK · #4 04-29-2007, 09:38 PM

I've used both. Switched from Obligatos when the windings started spinning on me and used Perms for several years after that. I would say that they are some what similar. I liked Obligatos a little better for the first week they were on, but they start to go pretty quickly. The perms are a bit stiffer, but they are a good string for both arco and pizz in my experience. The E and A are really growley in a good way, but they mellow out in a month or so and they just have a nice good, strong dark sound for a good run of time. I never really liked the G string from that set, but I also never stuck with it long enough to really break it in. A Flatchromesteel G was a nice blend for me.

Hope that helps.

Troy

Snarf · #5 04-30-2007, 11:51 PM

Could you compare the Permanents' stiffness with that of the Spiro Mittels?

TroyK · #6 05-01-2007, 01:22 AM

I've used them both, but not on the same bass, so it's a little tough for me. I don't think Perms are quite as stiff and/or tense as Medium Spirocores, but they are closer than Obligatos.

I don't know if that helps or not, but there you go.

Troy

Snarf · #7 05-01-2007, 10:30 AM

Very helpful, thanks very much.

tornadobass · #8 05-01-2007, 11:37 AM

I'm a little late, but have used Obligatos, Permanents and Spiro Mittels on my American Standard at various times.

The Obligatos were quite different in feel, sound, and volume compared to the Permanents. Perms are tighter, clearer and louder than Obligatos.

The Spiros were on quite awhile ago, but I'd agree they're closer to Perms. Something nice about the Perms is that they don't scratch at the start of notes like so many strings do. And they certainly don't roll under the right hand like Obligatos.

Uncletoad · #9 05-01-2007, 12:04 PM

Permanents seemed pretty dark to me. The pizz when they wear in is plain and clear with a pretty short note. Very much an Arco string that pitzzes ok. I don't think they are anything like Spirocores. Spiros are much brighter even when worn in. Obligatos are not a string I like, I can't figure out why they are as popular as they are.

See if you can find someone with a bass with Dominants on it and try some bow with them. I think they are a better pizz string for Jazz than the Perms or the Obligato and most arco folks like them.

In addition, worn in spirocores can be quite good for Jazz/Arco crossover too. There are many Orchestral players that bow well on them. If you can bow well on a spirocore I'll bet you can bow on just about anything.

I wouldn't change strings unless your instructor says to do so for your progress under the bow, or you are just not digging spirocores anymore.

Every string has good and bad points. You have to learn to work around or live with something on every string.

TroyK · #10 05-02-2007, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I don't think they are anything like Spirocores.

I agree with you on this UT. When I said they were likely similar, I was answering a question specifically about gauge, tension and stiffness and comparing to Obligatos.

Can't compare them to Doms, but I would say "read a lot and decide if you have an appitite for strings that are not all metal and all that comes with them." If so, you have other choices, but if you are looking for an all steel string, then that narrows it down.

I thought Perms were great pizz strings out of the box, but got dark pretty quickly and I had to swap them about every 6 months to keep clarity through the mix. I would have said they were more of an arco string that you could pizz until I tried some arco strings (Helicores and Flexicores) and then realized that they were definitely a hybrid. The best and worst of both worlds. But, I like them, don't mean to bash them. It's all about what trade offs you're willing to make. There is no perfect string, pickup or amp, in spite of what people post.

Clifford Brown was the perfect jazz musician though. I'm not open to debate on that.

Troy

Snarf · #11 05-02-2007, 04:49 PM

Hmm, very interesting guys, thanks for the input. I guess the best course of action for me is to start bowing the Spiro mittels. If at some point I have to change them, I'll look into the perms and the dominants, maybe see if a shop has some old ones that I can borrow. I think obligatos are out for me, I tried them on someone else's bass and they felt too loose and thin, and combining that with the general consensus that they die quickly, roll under the bow, and windings sometimes come undone, I can't see myself playing them.

TroyK · #12 05-02-2007, 05:52 PM

I may get blasted for this, but all multi-material strings (gut + metal, perlon + metal, nylon + metal...) have durability and longevity issues to accompany their desirable qualities. Someone will respond and say they've never had an issue, but read the archieves and you'll be sure that more issues are reported than with steel strings.

Not saying you shouldn't use or try them, just saying that's part of the decision.

Uncletoad · #13 05-02-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyK

I may get blasted for this, but all multi-material strings (gut + metal, perlon + metal, nylon + metal...) have durability and longevity issues to accompany their desirable qualities. Someone will respond and say they've never had an issue, but read the archieves and you'll be sure that more issues are reported than with steel strings.

Not saying you shouldn't use or try them, just saying that's part of the decision.

That's true. If that is an issue Obligatos are out as are Dominants or the new Pirastro strings. In addition all the gut core strings like Oliv, Eudoxa etc.

That leaves one with, Spirocore, Flexocor, Flatchrome, Corelli, Superflex, Permanent. Of those I think Spirocore mittels would be my first choice.

When they are good and broken in (like a year or so) they are formidable.

Bobby King · #14 05-03-2007, 01:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyK

I may get blasted for this, but all multi-material strings (gut + metal, perlon + metal, nylon + metal...) have durability and longevity issues to accompany their desirable qualities. Someone will respond and say they've never had an issue, but read the archieves and you'll be sure that more issues are reported than with steel strings.

Not saying you shouldn't use or try them, just saying that's part of the decision.

I generally agree. Regular roundwound gut strings are fairly reliable but all the flatwound guts and many synthetic core strings are prone to "issues". I think that flatwound metal on a core that is pliable and stretches and contracts will have a tendency to separate. This is especially true if they are on and off a bass multiple times.

Metal strings like Spirocore, Flexocore, Superflexible and Corelli are way less maintenance and will last and last. But -- big but -- a steel core string has a different sound. So for those of us in love with gut, we just have to deal with the problems. Also, Obligato is still my favorite "crossover" string despite their problems. They bow very well yet still have sustain for jazz, plus a hint of gut-like attack. They're not that expensive either. Flexocore is the best of all arco string IMO, but the E and A don't make it for pizz. I don't like Spirocore for arco.

I've concluded that where bass strings are concerned, there's no free lunch