Oh god, here goes, who is bowing a gut A and E?

[Jason Sypher]

i've got them on g and d and I can bow them fine. i hate when i have to cross over to my a and e and play steels. anyone bowing an a and e gut wound? is it impossible?

[Jeremy Allen]

Do Eudoxas count? I have them on a bass with Golden Spiral G and D and they bow like a dream. They maybe bow *too* well to be matched with the other guts on top. But they sound wonderful pizz as well--if only they hadn't started unraveling after about three weeks at the spots where I play them the most (Bb on the A string, and up near where I pluck with my right hand).

I've played an Oliv A as well, and it was just gorgeous with the bow. Pretty dark and thunky pizz, though. One of my students has a plain gut A, and it can be bowed about the same as the G and D. In fact, I think plain gut on the A and E may make more sense with a bow than it does for pizz-only playing--at least the bow can keep them in motion and give some clarity of pitch.

[Bobby King]

I have a full set of Gamuts on my Kay bass (wound E&A) and I have no problem bowing on them. However, I mostly use that bass for pizz and just bow on it for practice and warmups. My Strunal bass currently has Superflexibles and an Olive G and I much prefer that for arco, both tone and response.

Bowing well on gut is a skill I haven't developed (or on steel either, for that matter )
but I have begun to see that you need to use less bow pressure and more speed, especially on the plain strings. You can dig in a little more on the wound ones. Lighter use of rosin helps too, to cut down on the scratchy sound. There is a "throaty" quality to gut arco which can be nice, but I find that that quality can also be found using Olive, Eudoxa, or even the synthetic core Evah Pirazzi or Obligato, and all of those strings are much easier to bow. Still, bowing on traditional gut has it's devotees.

[ablumley]

Jason,

I'm using wound guts for my E and A (Efranos from Lemur) and I find them no more difficult to bow than the Obligatos I had on my bass before. Mind you, I'm relatively new to the double bass (I played the guitar for a decade + before switching), so I'm building a lot of technique from scratch.... With that in consideration, I've found that after some technical adjustment and switching to hard rosin (was using cello/viola rosin from Pirastro for a bit, now I'm onto the Brohan Oak), I have no desire to go back to synthetic or steel. The sound is pretty throaty, but the hard rosin gives more clarity. I know you play some Eastern European/Roma type stuff, and I think the low guts would compliment this kind of music--rough and growly.

[JeffKissell]

Jason,
My bass was in the shop for some bridge work and while I was there the luthier put a bow on the wound Dlugolecki"s...HEAVEN!! It was huge and articulate. I've only ever heard them when I play and I suck with a bow. (I'm not very diligent with it's study but I will change my ways after hearing that!)

I think Damian's strings are being overlooked sometimes because they are not varnished so the whole set is somewhat disregarded, but they are the best strings I've ever played.(period) They are a reproduction of an antique string so they are designed to bowed anyway, especially the wound E & A. I think with your skill and style you would love the sound.

If you are ever in California, please don't hesitate to contact me.
-J

[GriffithLea]

As of today, I'm bowing a gut A (once again). I got a G-D-A set of Olivs this week, and I put them on this evening.

They replaced my G-D-A Belcantos. Wow, are the Olivs ever THICK. I think the Oliv G is nearly as thick as the Belcanto A. But, they do feel very comfortable under the fingers.

They sound a bit scratchy, but that doesn't concern me, since I know in a few days they should smooth out. I used to play on Eudoxas in college, and I'm familiar with the pattern.

I'd thought about just going with Eudoxas again, since that's what I used way back when, but I wanted to try the Olivs to see what they're like. I'm looking forward to getting them completely worked in, to see if they're as smooth and rich as I remember the Eudoxas being. I loved those Eudoxas.

I'd have replaced the long E with an Oliv as well, but I couldn't find anyone with one in stock. I think they are special order. Right now, I've got a Helicore blue silk on there, and it's doing the job, but that's about all I can say for it. I'd ordered an Evah Pirazzi long E, but it's on back-order, too. Maybe I'll just tell them to get me an Oliv long E, and wait it out.

I like the Belcantos, but I didn't notice how muffled and rubbery they sound and feel until I started swapping in the Olivs. The Oliv's have a very clear (but not bright) sound, and feel more secure under the fingers (and vibrato seems easier, somehow), when compared to the Belcantos. I guess to make steel strings sound warm, something has to give.

A lot of people talk about guts not staying in tune. My experience with the Eudoxas was that they stayed in tune just fine, once they settled in for a few days. For example, I just stepped over to the bass to check the tune after not touching it for a couple of hours (everyone's in bed) and I just needed to tweak it a bit. Not too bad for strings installed only about 4 hours ago. But, I think you do need to wind them neatly and carefully to get these results.

I've always found that steel strings are temperature sensitive, while gut strings are humidity sensitive, FWIW.

BTW, Jason, what kind of strings are your guts vs. steels?

[Jason Sypher]

I've been using an odd mix that has just worked over the last few years, Chorda G, Larsen D light, A and E spiro red. Doesn't sound that appealing on paper but it works ok with my bass. But the switch to the A from the D, particularly as I get more comfortable in the upper regions of the bass is disappointing. I do think that part of it is technique. I don't think I'm as strong as I cross the strings. My bass is big and its difficult to keep my fingers completely perpendicular when holding down the string (I'm constantly looking for a better position). Some strengthening could be needed. But I've come to the realization that even if I put more into that A I still get a muffled frequency cut that stands out after playing the nice full-range gut (D string). You get used to that little whisper of highs on the gut and when their gone it feels like some colors have been removed from my palette. I just bit the bullet after reading a few posts last night and ordered Damian's new polished silver wound A which he said "has a sound that is profound". If I love it I'll get the E too. They are of course expensive at $125 a pop but my strings tend to last me for years so it's worth the rationalization to me.

[GriffithLea]

I am unfamiliar with Larsen strings, and I couldn't find anything on the web that would tell me what a Larsen bass D is like, but as you imply in your first post, they are some sort of gut string. The Chorda is, of course, gut.

Wow. I don't at all doubt that the transition from the top two strings to the bottom two Spiros is a rocky one. It's like you've got Pirelli's on one side of your car and monster mudders on the other.

I've got nothing against Spiros - I know a lot of people use them successfully, and more power to them - but I personally can't stand them for my own use (which is all orchestral/chamber).

My guess is that if you like gut on the top, you'll like it on the bottom, too.

Those Dlugolecki strings look interesting. I'd not heard of them until recently.

[Jason Sypher]

Larsen strings are sold at Gamut Gut Strings. I think they are on par with Dlugolecki's but I can't be completely sure. The more I think about it my D string could be a Dlugolecki. I found that the spiros had a nice bow sound which is not what most people expect to hear. For awhile I had Dominants on the bottom and that was pretty good too. Spiros were a little punchier. Long before that I went through a whole Oliv/Eudoxa period but found them unwinding at oft used notes and the A and E were too unresponsive to me. I think that if these new Dlugoleckis aren't too rough I will probably love them. I never cared for the roundwound guts, too difficult to slide on.

[Marcus Johnson]

Dan Larson = Gamut Guts strings... check the spelling.

[Bobby King]

Jason,

Please post a detailed report on the new "profound", wound Dlugoleckis when you get them!

(I hope it's not profane)

[GriffithLea]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Dan Larson = Gamut Guts strings... check the spelling.

Aha! That's much clearer. There is also a Larsen brand of strings, though I don't think they make bass strings. I found them by searching for "larsen strings". That's the unpaved, dead-end road I went down earlier.

[JeffKissell]

Jason,
The Dlugolecki wound E & A are powerful strings for sure. They are the loudest most forceful strings I've had on my bass. The only strings close were the Dominants for volume, but nothing has come close for tone. I have been more diligent with the bow these last few days and the wound E & A are no more difficult for me to bow than the Spircore mittels. For someone at your level I'm sure you will find a beautiful "palette" available. Please post some sound clips when you get a chance.

BTW, the windings are polished closer to smooth than to round.

Keep us updated.
-J

[Jason Sypher]

Originally Posted by JeffKissell

Jason,
The Dlugolecki wound E & A are powerful strings for sure. They are the loudest most forceful strings I've had on my bass. The only strings close were the Dominants for volume, but nothing has come close for tone. I have been more diligent with the bow these last few days and the wound E & A are no more difficult for me to bow than the Spircore mittels. For someone at your level I'm sure you will find a beautiful "palette" available. Please post some sound clips when you get a chance.

BTW, the windings are polished closer to smooth than to round.

Keep us updated.
-J

Good, that is what I was hoping for...not completely smooth but also not completely round-wound either. I'm watching the mail everyday...

[Jason Sypher]

I have to say that my initial impression of the Damien Dlugolecki wound A1 NiAg is complete disappointment. Out of the bag the string looked glorious. The workmanship and materials look first class. The wound is smooth, even smoother than I expected. The guage is completely reasonable, even kind of thin. So what's the problem. Well, so far, the sound. I'm not getting any bite out of the bow and the sound is dull and lifeless. I'm shocked really. I think I will leave them on for a week or so and just muddle through hoping that perhaps as they stretch they will settle in more. I don't know what else to say. If the string doesn't get any better I guess I will write Mr. Dlugolecki and send him a sound clip. I think it's really that bad, you can hear that it would be useless compared to the other three strings. Maybe I got a dud or something but I'm not going to pass final judgement until I play it for a week.

edit: Well, I couldn't even wait that long, the string is virtually unplayable and I want to do some recording today so off it came. I'm quite shocked by how odd the string sounds. Since there is no real discernible start to the note it almost has a french horn kind of sound. There are absolutely no high frequencies to speak of. It's as if all mids, mid-highs and highs were eq'ed out of the mix. It's also quieter than the other three strings in a very noticeable way. Since I've never heard of a string gaining highs as it settles in, I just had to take it off. It was too upsetting to think how much I paid for it for it to be such a dud. I guess I now have the unenviable task of writing Dlugolecki and sending the string back. I realize that there isn't much he can do but I think he should have it so he can try it out for himself and see that I am accurate in my assessment.

[Jason Sypher]

Damian has agreed to help me remedy my string situation by either swapping, crediting, or refunding. Just to let everyone know. Very cool guy.

[dfp]

i think La Bella's gut set w/ plain G/D and wound A/E is a great set, but they don't get any love around here... all i know is from playing them on my own bass. i find bowing on them to be not impossible, a little tricky, good enough for my own amusement as long as i'm not playing anything fast.

[GriffithLea]

Just a general gut comment - I'd been using Belcanto G-D-A and a Helicore long E up until a couple of weeks ago, when I switched to Oliv G-D-A . So last night I was at a rehearsal for a Christmas program, and we're playing A Charlie Brown Christmas - when we got to the Linus and Lucy part, I was really amazed at how much clearer the loud pizz was with the guts. The attack is Right Now with the guts.

Also, at the end of the Pas de Deux (Nutcracker). Plenty of power!

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by dfp

i think La Bella's gut set w/ plain G/D and wound A/E is a great set, but they don't get any love around here... all i know is from playing them on my own bass. i find bowing on them to be not impossible, a little tricky, good enough for my own amusement as long as i'm playing anything fast.

I had them on a Bass for a short while and used them in Orchestra. They seemed fine for the program we were doing. As far as the topic of bowing the A and E and on fast stuff, if and when I get a set with an Extension, I will try the Storm part in the Beeth. 6th in those 3 fast moving 2 bar sections of rapid 16ths played mostly with the C-Extension.

By the way, that was a challenge when I played it using my Gilkes with the new EPs on it (I think, or did I have Flexocors on that night??).. Either way, Gut will be a real challenge.

Also, I have started a General Gut Topic Thread as well.

[juuzek]

Jason,
I'm interested to hear your impression of your 'second' A string coming from Damian. Please keep us posted.
Cheers.