Oh man....

[moles]

So here's a problem....

I've had a set of Lenzner guts on the Strunal for a little over 2 months. I play old school swing, some country and rockabilly, and some coffeehouse jazzy-duo sort of gigs - so they're working out nicely. I'll be starting lessons for arco as well soon - and they seem to do just fine for that. Compared to the student-grade D'Addarios and weedwackers that I had on previously, they're like a breath of fresh air.
A couple days ago I noticed a buzz which, after a few moments of thinking it was my end pin rattling again, turned out to be the E string. It's shrunk away from the outer wrap, presumable due to the dry air up here. (For those not in-the-know, Winnipeg gets cold in the winter, yup). When its on the bass and tuned up, the wrap turns quite easily - it quite loose. I took the string off last night, and it seems fine when its not under tension.

Anybody know if its salvageable? Can I steam it back to life or something? Soak it? Put it away until spring and see if its any better? Give up on guts and and move on?

[Bobby King]

There's been a lot of discussion about this in the recent posts on the "Gamut Guts" thread and in also in the "Poll: Gamut or Dlugolecki Wound A and E?" thread. You're not alone having this problem at this time of year.

<< juuzek:

I seem to remember someone in the forum commenting that DD does not offer a rewinding service for his E and A strings. I also recall the reason being that he [Damian] felt it would never be neseccary! Tis is my recollection and not directly from Damian himself.

I am using a full set of DD guts and enjoying them for the most part. They sound and feel great, but they sure are a bit more high maintenance, in ways I did not expect. They actually are very stable regarding tuning, but are very sensitive to humidity [or lack of]. This is where the windings get touchy. The core shrinks and the windings get 'loose' on the string. I am trying to be very careful checking the strings at the bridge; I occasionally slack them off and pull the string up and away from the bridge to make sure the string does not bind in the groove of the bridge and separate the winding.
After contacting Damian, he recommended that I remove the strings until the springtime.

juuzek >>


<< Bobby King :

Here's a question for you guys:

Have any of you had windings come loose on a string (presumably when the core contracts) but if you leave the string alone until it gets warmer/more humid and the core expands, will the windings get tighter once again (and stop buzzing)? >>


<< juuzek:

Yes, the strings fluctuate. When properly humidified, the windings 'snug up' to the core.

>>

[ablumley]

I feel your pain. I'm having the same problem here in Toronto. It's my first winter with gut strings. I'm just trying to keep the the humidity at a good level in my apartment and on the -18c desert-dry days I just live with the buzz. One thing I am trying to be careful of are the wrappings becoming so twisted that they start to bunch up. I also slack the strings off if I'm transporting the bass to a different location or if I'm not going to be playing it for a while.

[moles]

Yup, its dry alright.
Well, after reading the other threads again, I'm stuck between trying to keep it properly hydrated and working or just leaving it off until spring.

A, I'm seriously thinking about just packing it in and going with a set of Rotosounds or Obligato's. Dominants maybe? I had originally stayed away from those because, with the exception of the Roto's, I was concerned about longevity.

[ablumley]

I found that obligatos didn't last longer than 8 months for me. I'm not convinced that they sound all that gut-like either.

If you're really having problems with the dry winter, why not just swap out the wrapped strings for something dependable like spirocores and put the gut back on when it warms up a bit?

In Toronto the temperature has been all over the place and I've found that as soon as it starts to warm up a bit, the strings return to normal. In the first couple of days of 2008 it got really cold which left my E and A rattling like a guembri. Then it warmed up about a week later and the strings returned to normal (just in time for a string of performances). And now it's cold again.... but I'm sticking it out because I prefer the feel and sound of the gut strings.

[Adrian Cho]

Forget about wound gut. I think I've posted that about a hundred times here over the years. It's just not worth the hassle especially for those of us in the northern climates. I had endless of problems of the sorts described in this thread. For the last couple of years I've been using Permanents on the bottom and unwound (Gamut) guts on the top and I think it beats any full gut setup.

[moles]

It seems to be just one of those things that really won't sink in until I find out for myself. The hard way.
The E stayed inside a tupperware container along with a damp sponge (after oiling the exposed ends) for a couple of nights. Bingo - its back in shape. Sort of - there are two spots of the wrap overlapping, but neither are fingerboard-side, miraculously enough.
I'm heading out today to pick up a decent humidifier as well. Between the string issues, and the almost daily nosebleeds - I figure its time. Let's see if we can get the string to stay stable this way, then if not we'll move on to something else.

[Adrian Cho]

You might want to think about detuning the strings between playing sessions. When I used the Olivs and Eudoxas, I used to do that to try and minimise problems and I think it did help a bit. I would also try and check the tuning of the strings one or twice a day (even if I didn't use the bass that day) to keep the tuning stable. The important point is not to let the tuning get too high as the core shrinks.

[Dave Speranza]

Originally Posted by moles

It seems to be just one of those things that really won't sink in until I find out for myself. The hard way.

yeah I'm teaching myself the hard way also..

Adrian, what about the permanents do you feel matches the gut so well? Why a steel string vs a synthetic "gut-like" (yeah, right!) string?

[Eric Hochberg]

What about oil? I have no experience with this but a friend of mine oils his oliv D and G.

[Adrian Cho]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

What about oil? I have no experience with this but a friend of mine oils his oliv D and G.

I have some of the Pirastro string oil and found it didn't make any difference.

[Adrian Cho]

Originally Posted by Dave Speranza

yeah I'm teaching myself the hard way also..

Adrian, what about the permanents do you feel matches the gut so well? Why a steel string vs a synthetic "gut-like" (yeah, right!) string?

I totally believe that despite so many string manufacturers promoting certain of their strings as being "gut-like" that none of them come close. That's why having tried most of them from Obligatos to Innovations to Velvets and then all the Pirastro wound guts including Olivs, Eudoxas and Pizzicatos that I ended up with unwound gut. It really gives me THAT sound and nothing else can compare. That said, I find that 90% of THAT sound comes from the top two strings. I find very little if any improvement in the sound from having (wound) gut on the bottom. I played on Eudoxas on the bottom for many years BTW.

I find that by using appropriately matched steel strings on the bottom:

a) The total cost for strings is far, far less expensive than wound gut.

b) It gives you a more stable tuning to tune your gut G and D to.

c) Neither Dlugolecki, Larson (Gamut) or Aquila can make a long C extension string as their machines aren't big enough to wind a string that long. You CAN special order a long C Oliv or Eudoxa. I have one of the latter at one stage but never ended up installing it. $190 for the one string if I remember correctly.

d) The sound cuts through the mix a lot better.

e) I don't have to worry about windings coming off wound gut strings!

The Permanents have a dark sound that still projects and I really find that it works well with the guts. They are punchy and loud. Some (but not all) people agree with me. I couldn't find anything else that was as a good a match including Flexocors, Varicore, Spirocore, Obligato, etc., etc.

[Phil Rowan]

Back in my gut days I used to get a little twist-off can of sheep's fat/lard (I know theres a name for the product I'm trying to describe here, it's just been a long time) at the general store and rub a small amount in to my plain D and G strings. It seemed to help with keeping it hydrated. I learned this from my old teacher and good friend Dennis Irwin (get well soon!!!).

[CB3000]

the shrinking thing is a drag. i have an old beat up wound gut A that just sounds incredible BUT i can't really use it for about 6 months of the year. i've had luck with innovation silver slaps. i am able to bow them with some adjustment to rosin and technique. they are fat and low tension much like gut. i have to use them in the summer for all the outdoor stuff cuz guts are just a nightmare in the sun. the silver slaps are the only thing that has come close to my gut setup.
adrian's string combo is a great way to go too. if you don't have to deal with sun and heat then that may be the ticket.

[Adrian Cho]

I've played outdoors many times with my setup and in Ottawa it gets damn hot and humid in the summer. Has worked OK so far.

[CB3000]

now that i think about it my plain guts are goetz, i think, and are unvarnished. maybe the varnish helps block the humidity?
which makes me think--how about winding on varnished gut?

[Marcus Johnson]

Adrian, as many times as you've posted your findings over the years, I have to say that I agree with you. Having played some full gut sets recently, I can see how the clarity and stability on the bottom two strings would be a good way to go for many bassists. The guts that really catch my ear and make my hands feel good are always the unwound tops, and as I progress down to the lower strings, it's always kinda... ehhhh...

More power to those of you who can play guts on the bottom, and no offense intended.

[larry]

I have to say that I have never seen my Oliv windings separate even after a couple of years. I recently bought Eudoxas for the bottom. I love the A. We'll see how they last.

Those of you who have had problems: Are you SURE the slots were properly widened and lubricated? Am I just lucky that I live in a humid part of the world? We do get a month or two of cooler temps, such that I have to turn on the heat at night. That does drop the humidity inside.

[Adrian Cho]

It's the dry winters that cause the problems.