Orchestra Arco String Test 1

[DFW5String]

Like everyone I guess, I am always interested in further optimizing the performance of my specific bass/bow/rosin/string combination. My instrument is a 2006 Poellmann Busetto 7/8 size 4 string. The bow is a German style Bernd Doelling, and I use Kolstein Soft Rosin.

My luthier has adjusted the sound post to what seems the best position. And while optimizing the equipment is one thing, this bass player needs work as well, and I am undergoing continuing instruction and improvement. I play primarily arco in Orchestras and Choral accompaniment.

So my focus is on finding the right arco orchestra strings for my setup.

TBers and others seem to pretty much designate at least 5 arco orchestra strings as the best available at reasonable prices.
The top 5 are Orchestra versions of Belcanto, Flexocore (92s), Corelli (370F Tungsten), Helicore, and Evah Pirazzi.

Would you agree?

See my next post for my test.

[DFW5String]

My stand mate and I both switched to Belcantos last year. I had my old set of Helicores from my old laminated bass. But I had never tried the classic Flexocore, Corelli, or the new Evahs. So this seemed to be a good time to have a little focused fun, and experiment with all 5 string sets on my new bass/bow/rosin setup.

I thought I would play and rate each set in three different listening modes...1) as heard by the player, 2) as heard 10 meters away, and 3) as heard in a concert hall. Several standard selections would be played by the same player, covering a broad range of 4-string possibilities.

Each set would be rated 5=Excellent to 1=Poor in eight categories:
1) Sonorous bass-like tone, 2) Ease of bowing, 3) Match of the 4 strings in tonal character, 4) Overall volume when pushed, 5) Ease of fingering, 6) Orchestral Pizz sound, 7) Thumb position/harmonics,
8) Smoothness and look of the string.

Are there other characteristics you would suggest be rated?

The 5 string sets are here now, and I'm ready to get started. I'll publish the results here as they come in.

When the competition is over I'll donate the 5 string sets to the University of North Texas bass program so students can try the strings on their own basses and make their own judgements as to what works best for them.

[Dave Whitla]

How long do you plan to leave each set on the bass? Some strings take longer than others to break in, and all strings take a little while to adjust to being at tension and fully stretch out.

[DFW5String]

I plan at least a week on the bass with heavy daily playing
Already noticed considerable change in the sound of the Corellis after three days. Good point you made! Thanks!

[Amin]

Wow... Good work! We' re looking forward your comments and descriptions...!

[Eric Swanson]

What about Permanents as another alternate? Also seems like a common orchestral string, no?

Bless your clear thinking, ambition, and string allowance . Thank you so much for doing this!

[Istar]

How about recording your results and make that available on the web. Like some other site I saw earlier on TB but that was mainly for pizz.
That way we all would be able to hear the difference.

[DFW5String]

Great idea! I am planning digital recordings of each at the different distances. I'll figure out how to post them on the net in an organized fashion, kinda like that other site. Should be interesting if we can actually hear the differences.

[Felessan]

I'm ridiculously excited to hear the results of this test.

I'd like to hear the Permanents as well, as they are another popular orchestral string (not among TBer's though?).

If you can get your hands on some Jargars, I'd recommend trying them out, too. I had a chance to hear a bassist play a Bach gamba sonata with these strings and he sounded fantastic out in the hall. He had the medium gauge on at the time. I've also played them on some mediocre basses and they reminded me of original flexocores, but not as tight feeling--and they still made a rich sound and respond quickly.

My ideal listening list would be: Jargar, Original Flexocore, Flexocore (the normal red flexocore), Belcanto, Permanent, Helicore, Corelli (370F Tungsten), and Evah Pirazzi.... for starters.


A Precaution:
Make sure that your bridge is well-seated each time you tune your strings--it can get tilted with all of this string-changing business going on.

A Suggestion:
For the "as heard in a concert hall" portion of the test, have your listener sit in various positions in the hall... halls are notoriously uneven in bass response depending on your location. I have yet to meet a hall that doesn't have some bass-frequency anomalies in it.

An Idea:
The lowest string is frequently an issue, so it may have to be treated separately with its own shootout...?

Good Luck! I wish I had a hall at my disposal for this type of test.
-Trevor

[DFW5String]

Great suggestions, thanks. Looks like from the comments so far I will look into the Permanents, tho some comments on TB about them seem to say the may sound a bit wirey. I'll look into the Jagars too.
Trevor did u notice I went to Cal Poly too and was in the symphony and symphonic band...a while back...LOL.

[Eric Hochberg]

More good info on this topic here.

[DFW5String]

MY PRELIMINARY Savarez CORELLI RATING =
2,2,2,3,2,1,2,2 = 16 total score of 40 possible.
So far, of 40 possible: Evahs=33, Belcantos=33, Corellis=16.

SYNOPSIS: I had the Corelli 370F Tungstens on for over a month. Interesting, bright sounding, low tension, thin gauge strings. They are a great value at ~US$125 for a set online. Lack bass tone and timbre.

Bass Tone/Timbre - Rated 2 of 5. Much brighter overall sound than the Belcantos and Evahs and a little brighter than the Helicores, especially the G and D. When I was installing and touched them, it sounded like I was touching guitar strings, not bass strings. They were very wirey sounding for a week after I put them on. They smoothed out after that, but still stayed scratchy sounding, especially on the G and D. Amazingly, out of the initial wirey sound, a lovely deep sound on the A and E developed after 2 weeks. The G and D sound tends to be what you would want for solo work, kind of cello like. They have complex harmonics, especially higher ones, that make it easier to hear yourself playing, but may not blend with the section or orchestra. Stayed in tune in a variety of conditions.

Bowing - Rated 2 of 5. The Corellis are harder to bow than the Belcantos and Evahs, but perhaps a bit easier than the Helicores. I found that these strings did not always start right away, especially the A. I sometimes had difficulty maintaining a consistent tonal quality with them. The could be great for working on bowing technique, for when they were bowed correctly they sounded good.

Match - Rated 2 of 5. The G and D seem to be matched well in tonal quality, as do the A and E, but not the set as a whole. As they aged, the tonal difference between the two groups of strings became very apparent and distracting.

Volume - Rated 3 of 5. Overall volume, close up at 1 meter, was measured as 3, similar to the Belcantos and louder than the Helicores. But the brightness of the Corellis cut through more than all. Volume plateued with bow pressure and became wirey, especially irritating on the D and G. The soft, loose E whacks the A on fff passages with a wirey twang.

Feel/Fingering - Rated 2 of 5. Corellis have just an OK feel under the left hand, as they are thin and flexible. But they have a hard feel, and the rough surface when moving up the fingerboard is irritating compared to the smoother German and Austrian strings. There is a noticeable buzzing sound at the left hand when stopped.

Pizz - Rated 1 of 5. Thuddy, poor quality orchestral pizz, especially on the E. No go for pizz gigs.

Thumb - Rated 2 of 5. Sounded very bright in thumb positions, tending too easily to a scratchy sound. Gets VERY scratchy when bowed up close to the bridge. DOES cut through for solo work, and you can hear yourself play.

Looks - Rated 2 of 5. Very thin gauge with rough edges. Not the smooth, polished visual quality and feel as with the German or Austrian strings I am used to. Seemed to have a hard, industrial look and feel to them at first, but I got used to it.



IN SUMMARY - Overall, a nice string set at an attractive price. Especially good if you need a brighter, younger, newer arco sound.

FAVORITE STRING = The A, such a nice sound after it was broken in, but sometimes takes effort to get it to speak consistently.

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[anonymous12251111]

Originally Posted by DFW5String

MY PRELIMINARY CORELLI RATING = 3,3,3,4,4,2,1,3 = 23 total score of 40 possible.
SYNOPSIS: I had the Corelli 370F Tungstens on for a month. Interesting strings. Great value at ~US$125 for a set online. Brighter overall sound than the Belcantos, especially the G and D. They were very wirey sounding for a week after I put them on. They smoothed out after that, but still more scratchy sounding, especially on the G and D, than I am used to with the Belcantos, my base comparison strings. A lovely deep sound on the A and E did develop in 2 weeks. A bit harder to bow, strings don't always start right away, especially the A. The G and D seem to be matched well in tonal quality, as do the A and E, but not the set as a whole. Overall volume close up was measured as 4 strong, similar to the Belcantos, but cuts through brighter. But the soft, loose E whacks the A on fff passages with a wirey twang. Nice feel under the left hand as they are thin and feel flexible. Some buzzing when stopped. Thuddy poor quality orchestral pizz, especially on the E. Very scratchy, raspy thumb position sound. Gets VERY scratchy when bowed up close to the bridge. Very thin gauge and not particularly smooth or polished visual quality as with the German or Austrian strings I am used to. Seemed to have a hard, industrial look and feel to them at first. When I was installing and touched them, it sounded like I was touching guitar strings, not bass strings. Stayed in tune in a variety of conditions. Overall, a nice string set at an attractive price. Especially good if you need a brighter, younger, newer arco sound.
FAVORITE STRING = The A, mmmm such a nice sound, but sometimes takes effort to get it to speak.

I think you should slap on some Eudoxa's or Olivs and pound. Corelli's are not for pounding.

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by DFW5String

[...] I had the Corelli 370F Tungstens on for a month.
[...]Very thin gauge and not particularly smooth or polished visual quality as with the German or Austrian strings I am used to. Seemed to have a hard, industrial look and feel to them at first. When I was installing and touched them, it sounded like I was touching guitar strings, not bass strings.[...]

Agree on that.
However, wiping them with extra fine steel wool helps to smooth them out.

Regards,
François

[DFW5String]

I think you should slap on some Eudoxa's or Olivs and pound. Corelli's are not for pounding.

I am curious about those, and will probably do those as well. What would you say is the difference between the two, from your experience Calvin?

[anonymous12251111]

Hey, I personally liked Eudoxa a little bit better just because the gauge was a tad lighter than Oliv. I enjoy the sound of Olivs more but the Eudoxa's just felt nicer under my hand. They're incredible strings.

[Felessan]

Originally Posted by DFW5String

Great suggestions, thanks. Looks like from the comments so far I will look into the Permanents, tho some comments on TB about them seem to say the may sound a bit wirey. I'll look into the Jagars too.
Trevor did u notice I went to Cal Poly too and was in the symphony and symphonic band...a while back...LOL.

When you said "a while back...LOL" I wasn't sure why you were laughing.... until I read your profile. It sure ain't called the "Little Symphony" anymore, haha. Was Clif your director? He was the guy that got me really into classical bass. He and I just had a concert at Disney Hall in downtown LA this past Sunday. It's kind of cool to know I put an endpin hole in that stage. Hahaha. Good times. He's very fond of the story of how he started making people audition when he became director.

Were you one of the lucky ones that made it in?

-Trevor
(That stage has lots of holes already, FYI. I just gave it some more of that lovely woodpeckered texture. Haha.)

[DFW5String]

MY PRELIMINARY Thomastic-Infeld BELCANTO RATING = 4,5,5,4,4,3,4,4 = 33 total score of 40 possible.
So far, of 40 possible: Evahs=33, Belcantos=33, Corellis=16.

SYNOPSIS: I’ve had the Belcantos on, and off, and on again for more than a year. Excellent strings, and as some have said, they really did seem to make my instruments sound 100 years older. Pricey, but probably worth it at ~US$210 for a set online, as they sound good, bow easily, and are long lasting.

Tone/Timbre - Rated 4 of 5. The Belcantos consistently produced a smoother, darker sound on all four of my basses than did the Helicores, Corellis and Evahs. These strings are ready to play right after you put them on, no breaking in! They are very durable - their sound has not changed in over a year, even after being switched between all four of my basses. The sound is indeed dark and sonorous on all four strings, VERY “bassey”. Did someone say “gut-like”? It’s true - these strings make your bass sound like a double bass, and yes, an older double bass. NO cello-like sound here! But in producing that dark sound, the dampening technology applied seems to result in fewer complex harmonics, so it’s a straight, very nice and smooth, low bass sound. Some might feel it’s a sound that is “singular”, not very complex, but it blends well with the section and the orchestra. Tuning seems to wander at first when temperatures change, then stabilizes.


Bowing - Rated 5 of 5. The Belcantos are extremely easy to bow - the best I have seen so far. VERY little bowing pressure is necessary. The strings start and respond with the greatest of ease in all situations. NO scratchiness, even when bowed close to the bridge. Amazing. Very little bow sizzle where the hair meets the string, so here you have a less mechanical, smoother, sweeter sound than other strings tested so far. The first thing you will notice when you play them is how easy and forgiving they are to bow!


Match - Rated 5 of 5. Remarkable balance and tonal quality match across all four strings. Open strings match closely across and with stopped tones. Nice for playing around with different tunings and fingering techniques. This is the first set of strings I’ve had where all four strings seem to be so closely matched in tonal quality and overall response to bowing.


Volume - Rated 4 of 5. Overall volume, measured at all four distances of 1, 5, 15 and 20 meters, was 4 strong, the same as the Evah Pirazzis, and louder than the Corellis and Helicores. Their smooth, “really bassey” sound made these strings sound better in volume and quality of sound than any string I’ve heard so far. Modulation of sound is fantastic, because no matter what you do with the bow, the sound quality and volume is there, where you want it. The volume plateaued somewhat with bow pressure, but with the Belcantos the sound quality remained good and never got scratchy Strings did not hit each other in fff passages, even with low action.


Feel/Fingering - Rated 4 of 5. Very nice feel under the left hand as they are relatively thin, very smooth and flexible. The Evahs feel a bit softer and smoother. You will not burn your fingertips on these strings.


Pizz - Rated 3 of 5. Adequate for all orchestral pizz. And for the occasional pizz gig they are just OK, kinda thumpy with a dampened sound. Remember these are arco orchestra strings!


Thumb - Rated 4 of 5. Smooth, well centered thumb position sounds and harmonics. Somewhat dampened sound in higher positions. Octaves may possibly be too dark for some listeners. Very forgiving on bow position. Never scratchy at the bridge.


Looks - Rated 4 of 5. Relatively thin gauge, very smooth and polished. Well made, except for a couple of the the end balls, which had a cutting hazard from sharp wires protruding. Rosin seems to stick on these strings more than others, and is more difficult to remove. Nice bright orange silks.



IN SUMMARY - Overall, one of the best strings available. Great sound, easy to bow, balanced tonal match, and long life. Belcantos can probably make your average bass sound like a vintage double bass of great quality! I always return to Belcantos from other strings I am testing, and I always end up thinking THESE are GREAT strings! Especially good if you need a darker arco sound that blends well with others.

FAVORITE STRING = The E - an E that works!
Hard to choose, because ALL the Belcantos sound GREAT!

*****************

[Eric Swanson]

Great, apt review. I keep coming back to them in between trying other strings...I am dreaming of a Weich gauge in these strings with just a bit more brightness up in TP. Its a nice dream...

[DFW5String]

Thanks. It's interesting to compare the strings and share my results, as the sound to me, on my Poellmann. I also keep coming back to the Belcantos between others. I am told early test versions of the Belcanto solo strings are to be circulating soon, as will 5ths tuning strings. So they are developing the line. Next test is the Evahs, beginning tonight.