Orchestral String choices...

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Orchestral String choices...

Please list your favorite Orchestral Strings in the order you like them. Also, list what you prefer for heavy Orchestral Bowing only and not just for an occasional Arco venture.

Feel free to explain why you like what you like and the type of Bass you use them on along with the string length as well as your Bow if you care to go into it.

[bejoyous]

I play 85% arco. I play in Orchestra London Canada, the Stratford Civic Orchestra and the Light of East Ensemble (Middle and Near East music most of which I bow).

I use a KSB Tecchler German bow with black hair and Kolstien soft and/or Oak soft rosin. Presently I'm using a Peter Chandler bass - Tarr model, a 7/8 bass with a short 39.5" string length. It came with D'Addario Helicores on it. They were really dull and unresponsive, very quiet and the pizz was half the volume of the arco.

I did some research and chose Piastro Obligatos next. Wow, what a difference! Pizz like a canon, easy to push down with the fingers, stayed in tune, sounded great, bright sounding so it was easier to hear the pitch. On the negative side, because my short string length, they were a bit flappy. The roll on the A and E strings sometimes made 1/16 note passages unarticulate. Other than that, I was very pleased with them.

Looking for a stiffer string, I did a bit more research and picked Thomastick Dominants next. I found they were stiffer so I could lower my string hieght a bit and were not flappy. However, at first they had an abrasive, nasal metalic zing when bowed so I had to be really careful when playing arco. I took about 2 months of playing till they mellowed out. I liked them a lot after this. Again, they are quite bright so you can hear the pitch well. They have lots of volume and the tone is quite nice, although a bit plasticky. And they stay in tune forever; I almost never had to tune!

When these started wearing out, they great Evah Parazzi and Belcanto megathreads started. I thought I'd try one of these. I flipped a coin and it came up EP.

I've only had them on a week and have done only a "New Years in Vienna" Pops gig so my full review will have to wait a while. So far though, I quite like them. My stand partner noticed my bass sounded better. Our principal bassist tried my bass and the 1/16 notes really popped out.

I looked at the ball end of the strings when I was changing them. Compared to the Dominants, the perlon filiments seem finer and the inner copper wrapping is flat rather than round wire. The guage is a little larger as well. I had to take a round file to open the groove on the bridge for the A string a little so the string would settle right to the bottom. I haven't put on the E string yet as I'm going to have some extension work done but I imagine I'll have to trim the bridge for that as well.

So far, they seem to have the best of the Obligatos and Dominants without the negatives. I'll write a full review after I've ripped the snot out of them with Beethoven's 5th and Brahms 2nd. I'm giving a big solo concert next week so I'll see what the audience thinks as well.

[T-34]

I started taking regular (weekly) arco lessons just 5 months ago so my opinion couldn't be very useful for the gigging professionals with much more experience than me and I don't play in orchestra yet (but I'd like to).
I play 1 to 2 hours per day.

Anyway, maybe this post will be useful for the arco beginners like me.

My bass (low-end Strunal Hybrid) was strung with Thomastic Superflexibles until 1 month ago when I changed them to Obligato Orchestras. I like Obligatos more than Superflexes: string crossings and slurs are so much smoother, they require less bow pressure too. I don't have nearly enough playing level to compare 16th notes responsiveness and be handicapped by A and E rolling issues. But Obligatos are for sure more easy to control than Superflexes: easyer to go from pp to ff, not slipping into the harmonics when I don't need it etc. They are a bit brighter than Superflexes maybe just because they are still new.

The school's bass has Corelli 380M set on it. I don't like it at all: sure easy to bow but too easy to overplay, way too slim, low tension strings with no sound volume.

Just my 0.03 euros

[reedo35]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Please list your favorite Orchestral Strings in the order you like them.
Feel free to explain why you like what you like and the type of Bass you use them on along with the string length as well as your Bow if you care to go into it.

1. Flexocore (92) - Easy to bow, nice and smooth, medium tension. Nice even sound, Not much sustain,may be a little too dark for some basses. You were right about the floppy E, though.These are currently on my Upton Hybrid and I like the sound.

2. Obligatos- Good all around string, not very loud, but pretty easy to bow and pizz. Currently on my 1923 Wilfer Bass,
(41.75 string length)which is very responsive.

3. Jargars- Smooth as silk under the bow, but a little bit muddy for pizz. Short string life. relatively low tension. (on my bass)

4. Corellis- Unpredictable. Response is OK, but Depending on the bass, they lack power. Nice for pizz, though. Very thin gauge in comparison to other strings.

As for Bows, I use a Carbow CF with black hair (french) and a
Pfretschner Bow with white hair (french)

[JoeyNaeger]

Number 1 for me is definitely the Thomastik belcantos. Best bow repsonse of any string I've tried, and a smooth, velvety tone that I love. They're fairly loud as well.

Number 2 is probably the heavy helicore orchestras. They have a big ballsy tone, and good response under the string as well.

Number 3 is the Flexicore 92's. They have a beautiful, sweet tone, but I find I can't dig in as much as I'd like with these. The solo tuning strings are my favorite though.

Honorable mention are the Correllis. They lack the power of most normal strings, but they have a such a clear, glassy sound that I love. I like them for soloing in orchestral tuning.

[pat1151]

I have tried the D'Addario Helicore Medium (Orchestral Series & Solo) aswell as the Pirastro Original Flexocors.

from my experience so far; order of preference:

1. Helicore Medium
2. Original Flexocor

Right now I am experimenting with Helicore on A,D & G while using the Original Flexocor E because the helicore E wasn't speaking very well on my bass.. I'll be trying out this combo in orchestra this weekend.

Particular strings of interest are the Obligatos and Bel Cantos.
My stand partner is on a set of Bel Cantos, simply beautiful strings!!

EDIT:

I am using a Prochownik Sartory Model bow with white hair on a 42'' string length plywood bass (czech). After using the heli with flex E set up for a while, I can say that it helps to have the heavy E string for tuning down to Eb and D to get some lower notes in the score. It sounds a little muffled still though.

My opinion is that the helicores work well on cheaper basses and that the Flexocor set is not good for new ply instruments.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

So far, so good.. lol

I am hunting for the right string (if there is such a thing) for a 3/4 Italian Bass I just got. It has 10 year old Flexocors. Listeners tell me it sounds even down to the Low 'E' but when playing it, I don't hear it being quite as loud.

I made a slight switch with another Bass I have and 'borrowed' a one year old Stark Flex 'E' (all I have new in stock are Extension strings. ..Normally that's a good thing until you need a regular 3/4 String). When putting it on I saw that the String was way long so I did what I usually do and switch the 'A' and 'E' strings putting the 'E' on top.

Now when I play the Bass the 'E' sounds even with the 'A' string under the ear so it must sound at least that good at a distance which we tested as well and my assumption was correct.

The reason for my asking what Bass and Bow you use is for all of us to see that besides the 'different strokes for different folks' thing, we have 'different needs for different basses' as well.

Now, I just happen to favor this exact stringing and tuner method on my other basses as well. Seeing how it once again makes 'the fix' puts a smile on my face.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

I just took a set of EPs with Ext.'E' off of my English Gilkes that were on the Bass for about 4 months. I put on a new set of Flexocor 92s with the Stark Ext.'E' (yes, I have a few of the discontinued Stark xE's left).

The Pizz was beautiful with the EPs but the Flex's just Bows a bit sweeter and smoother. If I was doing more Jazz playing than Orchestral Bowing then the EPs would still be on my Bass. The Gilkes is a brighter type sounding olde English Bass with more midrange presence rather than a low organ sounding type instrument. Perhaps the EPs would do better on an ultra dark sounding Bass that needs to be brightened up? For me, a Bass can never sound too deep with a Bow in an Orchestra.

So far, no matter what I try I keep coming back to Flex 92s with either a Regular or Stark 'E' depending on the Bass.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

Perhaps the EPs would do better on an ultra dark sounding Bass that needs to be brightened up?

Why don't you try'em on the Storioni.
I'd bet they'd be great on that bass.


Bri

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by bribass

Why don't you try'em on the Storioni.
I'd bet they'd be great on that bass.


Bri

Well, for one, I am not looking to brighten that Organ up. I love it as it is but... It has to be restored before I play it for real and the E, it's for an extension and the Storioni doesn't have one on it at the moment.

[Don Higdon]

1. Olivs.
Reason 1: the tone
Reason 2: the tone
Reason 3: the tone
2. Bel Canto
Good tone, quickest response under the bow.
3. Original Flexocor
Big sound, good projection. A great section string.

[Dave Whitla]

1. Evah Pirazzi. Really enjoying the sound of them. Pretty responsive with the bow, really good pizz sound
2. Bel Canto. Great bow response. Not quite as good pizz, but ok.
3. Velvet Compas 180. Nice sound overall. great pizz sound (would probably be first choice if all I did was pizz). In the end not quite articulate enough with the bow.
4. Obligatos
5. Innovation (UK) Nice sound, but too much roll for my taste.
6. Helicore Heavy. I used these for a long time, until their quality control worsened and sent me spiraling into the world of string trials. I seem to have come up for air finally with the EPs.

This is all french bow, mostly chamber music and small orchestras (with occasional non classical plucked stuff), on a nice old French bass.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by Dave Whitla

1. Evah Pirazzi. Really enjoying the sound of them. Pretty responsive with the bow, really good pizz sound
2. Bel Canto. Great bow response. Not quite as good pizz, but ok.
3. Velvet Compas 180. Nice sound overall. great pizz sound (would probably be first choice if all I did was pizz). In the end not quite articulate enough with the bow.
4. Obligatos
5. Innovation (UK) Nice sound, but too much roll for my taste.
6. Helicore Heavy. I used these for a long time, until their quality control worsened and sent me spiraling into the world of string trials. I seem to have come up for air finally with the EPs.

This is all french bow, mostly chamber music and small orchestras (with occasional non classical plucked stuff), on a nice old French bass.

Please clarify. Is these 6 the ones you have tried or you actually still use all 6 types listed? If not, which set do you use for Orchestral Bowing?

..And that French Bass, can you send me some good clear Pics of that Bass by email or post them on my forum in the Old French Bass section?

[Dave Whitla]

Hi Ken,
I'll try to do some decent photos of the bass since I got an extension and new fingerboard put on.

Those string preferences are in order from having tried them out over the past couple of years. Some strings were not on for much more than a few weeks (Obligato, Innovation). For orchestral bowing I've settled on the EPs for the moment, although I did like the Bel Cantos, too.

[AllegroConBasso]

I was just wondering if anyone has used a FULL set of Flex 92 Starks.

Are they higher or lower tension than a full set of Flex Originals? I have a beautiful Claudot Bass. The bass has a great low end, but the G string is a little too French for comfort. I have played Flex Originals all the way across as response isn't an issue on my instrument, but I tried a Flex 92 Stark G string and liked it. It is tight...but sounds OK. Is the WHOLE set tight? Will it choke my bass?

Again - the main question is...are the tensions of Flex 92 Starks Higher than Flex Originals? If anyone has that data I will forever be in your debt.

On another note, I just played a bass with the new "pizzicato" gut strings on and they sounds pretty sweet arco too. Bad marketing plan - they would work great in orchestra but because of the name most people will likely avoid them.

[KSB - Ken Smith]

Originally Posted by AllegroConBasso

I was just wondering if anyone has used a FULL set of Flex 92 Starks.

Are they higher or lower tension than a full set of Flex Originals? I have a beautiful Claudot Bass. The bass has a great low end, but the G string is a little too French for comfort. I have played Flex Originals all the way across as response isn't an issue on my instrument, but I tried a Flex 92 Stark G string and liked it. It is tight...but sounds OK. Is the WHOLE set tight? Will it choke my bass?

Again - the main question is...are the tensions of Flex 92 Starks Higher than Flex Originals? If anyone has that data I will forever be in your debt.

On another note, I just played a bass with the new "pizzicato" gut strings on and they sounds pretty sweet arco too. Bad marketing plan - they would work great in orchestra but because of the name most people will likely avoid them.

The G on your Claudot sounds too French? Did you expect it to sound Italian?..lol

In size, the Orig Flex are still thicker than the Flex Starks. I think the Starks sound sweeter and darker. The tension is not much of a difference but might be tighter, I am not really sure. I have only used them both on two Basses. It was more of a sound issue than tension. I have both sets at different times on my former Bisiach labeled Bass and my Martini. On the Bisiach, the Orig's replaced the Starks for a customer. When the Bass came back, I put the Starks back on. I liked the Starks better and the customer preferred the Orig's. Different strokes I guess.

Two things are certain though. One, the Starks cost less than the Orig's and two, they don't make the Stark E/C anymore. Although I stocked up on the Stark E/Cs when I heard the news, I think the Orig Flat Chrome E/C will match just fine down there.

I have a Bohemian 3/4 Bass here now with Orig's on it but with a Perm E. They are old and sound and play fine. Maybe age helps to take the edge off these strings but I don't like the Orig's when they are new as much as I like the Starks. Also, if tension is an issue, use the Reg Medium Flex's and put a Stark E on the Bass. That works great for Basses that have a soft E feel.

[BMason]

1. Bel Canto - Terrific response, volume is substantial, tone is wonderful. These make your bass sound about 100 years older.

2. Original Flexs - Massive volume, unremarkable tone. Response is good because of the tension, but sometimes the gauge hinders acrobatic fingerings.

3. Permanents - Good response and projection. All-around set.

[Dr Rod]

G pirastro chromcor (loud and articulate but without the edge)
D pirastro chromcor
A old spiro
E old spiro

[Johnny L]

G bel canto
D bel canto
A corelli forte
E corelli forte

This is what I'm using for orchestra...but the whole thomastic and pirastro lines are great strings IME. I like the corelli line too.

[hbfosho]

In order i Like
D'Addario Hybrids: excellent pizz, bow response great and the sound changes with what your trying to portray.
Thomastik solo: sounds deep when using orchestral tuning and bright when solo tuned. (used these in college for solos and orchestra)
D'addario orchestral: take a few strokes to open up but then become loud
Correli's: played on some a long time ago and they sounded great but it wasn't my bass so i'm not sure.
With the exception of the correli's all the other were played on my Kay bass (yes its set up for orchestral) which surprisingly enough doesn't sound like a ply bass. its overpowered several $12,000 and below basses i've tried out.