pirastro jazzers.

[jmpiwonka]

just a quick note here about the jazzers since i couldn't find much on them when i searched.

just put them on my shen willow 3/4.
pretty cool set. they are bright like a spirocore but they have a different ring to them. kinda like the ring that the eudoxa guts have from the silver winding.
tension is a little less than spiro mittel on my bass and they feel a good bit more flexible than the evah pirazzi weich.

lots of sustain. the g and d are bright and ring out real well. good volume.
the a and e are a little darker with lots of sustain. they don't growl or ring as much as the spiro mittel. they remind me of every other pirastro A and E strings really...seems they all have the same basic characteristics. the a and e seem to have a little less volume than spiro mittel.

as for arco. the strings start fairly easy and you can bow them...they sound real nasally like gut strings which was surprising. i imagine this is why people say they aren't arco friendly.

i think the diameters were very similar to spiro mittel.

[ctcruiser]

I have jazzers on my Christopher Hybrid.

They do have a nice growl. I have been mainly playing pizz with them and they sound great playing at jazz jams.

But, now I want to start bowing more and have not been as happy with them as they seem scratchy.

I am going to try out a set of Thomastik Dominants on this bass to see if the arco improves.

[AMJBASS]

Agreed. They do not bow that well. They are an interesting string with a nice easy tension to them, but I always found the attack to sound a bit strange. Very growly though.

[martinc]

I have used Jazzers (sometimes just a couple) on and off over the last 10 years or so on my 1936 King, 1949 Kay and on my present bass ...a 1992 Eberle.
I have found, for pizz, they are a good all-round string. They don't have the famous Spirocore (mittel and weich) zing and their tension is somewhere between the Sprocore Weich and Mittel. Like the Spiro's though, the Jazzers need to settle in for a while before they open up and lose their initial brightness.
On all three basses they had a focussed and solid sound.
I did not like the Jazzer E.....sounded dead. The G is a bit thin but not as bad as both Spiro G's.
However I also have found recently that after some studio work and a new band that requires me to be more lively in my attack, I have found the A and D Jazzer respond with a much more solid sound than the Weichs. They match well with a Bel Canto G and my Spiro Mittel E.
Damn. Just when I thought I was set for life with the Spiro Mittel/Weichs....along comes a new playing situation and a string re-evaluation.

[Eddue]

Originally Posted by martinc

I have used Jazzers (sometimes just a couple) on and off over the last 10 years or so on my 1936 King, 1949 Kay and on my present bass ...a 1992 Eberle.
I have found, for pizz, they are a good all-round string. They don't have the famous Spirocore (mittel and weich) zing and their tension is somewhere between the Sprocore Weich and Mittel. Like the Spiro's though, the Jazzers need to settle in for a while before they open up and lose their initial brightness.
On all three basses they had a focussed and solid sound.
I did not like the Jazzer E.....sounded dead. The G is a bit thin but not as bad as both Spiro G's.
However I also have found recently that after some studio work and a new band that requires me to be more lively in my attack, I have found the A and E Jazzer respond with a much more solid sound than the Weichs. They match well with a Bel Canto G and my Spiro Mittel E.
Damn. Just when I thought I was set for life with the Spiro Mittel/Weichs....along comes a new playing situation and a string re-evaluation.

In what way do the Jazzers match well with the Bel Cantos? I assume you mean pizz.

[martinc]

Eddue:

Yes...for pizz.
The Bel Canto G matches the Weich D, Jazzer D and Helicore Pizz Medium D well in sound and tension on my bass. It gives me a more solid and focussed sound instead of the more trebly Weich and Jazzer G.
The thing I have noticed is that if I use a Bel Canto G and D the two strings together produce a much duller sound with less volume.
For me the G works better and is more responsive with the above noted D strings, once they have settled in.
Something to do with overall tension on the bass top I guess.
I wish I could find a set of one brand of strings that works for me though.

[Eddue]

Are you only using a Bel Canto G because it just works well on that string or did you also try Bel Cantos on the other strings and they didn't work as well?

[martinc]

Originally Posted by Eddue

Are you only using a Bel Canto G because it just works well on that string or did you also try Bel Cantos on the other strings and they didn't work as well?

Eddue: For pizz, I found the Bel Canto G works well on its own on my bass.
I tried the Bel Canto D for a week......never tried the Bel Canto A or D. I figured if the D made the G lose volume and sound dull there was no point in buying an A and E.
I discovered the Bel Canto G a while back when I bought a used one from Francois.

[Eddue]

You seem to have solved your problem with finding the right strings. I am always looking the right sound.

I am considering Bel Cantos for a bass for mainly arco, time to work my bow technique. But also want to be able to perform without the bow. I prefer to use complete sets of strings when ever possible but I realize there is never a perfect solution and sometimes mixing strings is necessary.

[martinc]

" The right sound".....a huge challenge.
I love a solid, gut-like sound with medium tension along with a quicker attack and some sustain. All this on a plywood bass! That's my challenge.
I have tried so many strings and combinations (including all guts) over the last 14 years and finally ended up with a well worn-in Spirocore Weich/Mittel E mix which I have been using for the past couple of years.
I still hear too much string buzz etc. The Bel Canto G and Jazzer D and A are solid without any buzz etc and still have the Weich volume, feel and similar tension.
I played a show this past weekend.....the overall sound was strong in the mix, no string noise and felt very comfortable.
I hope things are still the same 6 months from now.
Good luck in your search.

[TroyK]

I'm updating a few threads, based on experimenting I've been doing this week. I've had spirocore weichs on for a couple of years and have a fresher set ready to go, but thought since I was changing and I had a short gig lull, I'd work through my string box, try a few things to see what else might work and sell or trade off anything that there's no reason for me to hang onto. (look for this same header in other threads today)

Regarding jazzers, I used a set for about a year and a half a few years back and have posted opinions on them now and again when prompted, but my bass has been through a major setup since then and I had not really A-B'ed them with other strings like I have this week.

Jazzers have the unfortunate reputation of being "Spirocore like, but why not just use Spirocores?" It's somewhat deserved. Spirocores are magical and awesome and I think that no one will ever beat them at their game. Jazzers are brightish like Spirocore, but as noted above, have a different subtle characteristic. You can hear it in the German bassist's recordings, though what you're hearing there is studio sound and not "in the mix", which is where most people say Spirocores (and Jazzers) earn their keep.

So, why fool with them? They have an interesting characteristic. They are almost excactly the gauge of Spirocore Mittels, but subjectively I'd say they are the tension of Spirocore Weichs. This appeals to me. My bass opens up under less tension and I have and old shoulder injury that can act up if the bass and I aren't cooperating. Uninstalled, jazzers are way more supple than S-Mittels and differently that S-Weichs and you can feel it once they are on the bass. They actually really remind me of the feel of Flexocores. I like this. I'm not saying they are gut-like, because that would be stupid and wrong, but there's a bounce to them that reminds me of a not-entirely-metal string and I like that. It feels organic and I can articulate on it. And my bass likes it.

This morning's experiment has my bass set up as follows; S-Mittel on E, Jazzers on A and D and S-Weich on G. Why? The Jazzer G is missing from my drawer mysteriously. The Jazzer E had a spilt in the winding. The A and D are past their useful life. The Mittel E is also ratty. The Weich G is almost 2 years old and I think past it's prime, but solid. Anyway, the Mittel E has a big voice as we all know. It is noticeably stiffer than the Jazzer E was or, of course the weich E. The weich G and surrounding Jazzers feel perfectly matched. The Jazzer G is actually larger diameter (same or close as mittel G), but I think the tension will match the weich. It's hard to tell if this setup would be a good idea because all of these strings are past their prime.

I'm seriously tempted, though, to buy myself a new set of Jazzers and put it on in total. I have been really happy with the weichs sound and articulation, especially once they broke in. I've never really adjusted to the size under my fingers and I tend to get my right hand tangled up in them when things cook. I don't remember this happening when I used Jazzers, but it would be an interesting experiment.

I remember not really liking the Jazzer G, but that was pre-great set-up, so I would try it again. I also remember not liking the S-Weich G until one day I did, so I wouldn't not try the Jazzer. I love when I've got a matched set on my bass. I don't remember having any problem with the Jazzer E, as others have noted. But, it appears that Spirocores or maybe a Superflexible here and there might be used to solve any problems should they arise. I think if you find yourself in a position where you want to use Spirocores, but weich are too thin and mittels are too stiff, Jazzers could be your answer.

Arco? Maybe this is anther post, but I've come to the conclusion that for a jazz player who uses the bow now and again, you can bow anything. You have to spend time with the strings and adjust bow weight and maybe try a few rosins, but as long as it's got a metal winding, I'm going to pick for jazz utility and then adjust to bowing. I never had a problem with jazzers. I never had a problem with the Spirocore Weichs. I struggled when I had Evah Pirazzis on, though I know they are better under the stick. I could have (but would have had to) work through it. If you play in an orchestra, you have other considerations, of course.

If I decide to string up a new set of Jazzers I'll update this thread after they've been burned in and tested in the real world. But, I contend that this is an overlooked and under-rated string. Think of it as poor Scotty Pippin playing in the era of Michael Jordan.

[AMJBASS]

While its been years since I have had a set, I seem to remember the E not having the same response as the other strings... It would be an interesting set to try out again though. Do let us know if you try out a set!

[TroyK]

I will let you know if I go that way.

I don't recall having any issue with the E. I didn't love the G, but I used to hate all Gs and Jake's magic hand has fixed that problem, plus my ear is different. I also used the G for a year and a half, so it couldn't have been that bad. I'm quick to yank a G off if I really have a problem with it. I had a FCS G on there with them for a while this morning and it kind of worked too, but didn't feel quite right. First impressions of the weich G with them are good, but if the Jazzer were the same, but larger in diameter? Better for me.

If the E was week, a Spirocore or Superflexible would solve that problem pretty seemlessly. The Mittel E that's on there definitely feels stiffer, but not in a jolting way and sonicly blends nicely (though these strings are all toast and may not represent how a new set would react).

[jmpiwonka]

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

While its been years since I have had a set, I seem to remember the E not having the same response as the other strings... It would be an interesting set to try out again though. Do let us know if you try out a set!

i kinda felt the same way...

[drurb]

Troy--

Thanks so much for all that insight and detail! I guess this is what sums it up:

Originally Posted by TroyK

...I think if you find yourself in a position where you want to use Spirocores, but weich are too thin and mittels are too stiff, Jazzers could be your answer.

Anxious to hear about your further experimentation.

[martinc]

Troy:

Good to see you back with the Jazzers.
I particularly like the Jazzer A next to the Spiro Mittel E. The two strings match very well. I had the D on for a while too but it was a bit tinny. I found that a Helicore Pizz Med D works great in the string mix too without the tinny-ness. The tension works for me too. I have a Bel Canto G which is solid but not dull. I think it's because of the lighter tension D next to it. I know, I know......
Strange brew but it all works for me.
Maybe one of these days I will find a set I like but it has not happened yet.

[Michael Glynn]

I used the jazzers for a few years and thought they were good strings. I found the G a little twangy, but certainly no worse than spirocores. I made the mistake of trying an Oliv G and now I can never go back to any other G (sigh).

One more benefit, and one of the main reasons I tried them out in the first place, is that the extended E string is much less expensive than a Spirocore. For some reason Thomastik charges much more for the extended E strings than Pirastro. I'm back to Spirocores (solo gauge) myself now, but if there were a light gauge of jazzer, I might have to try them again.

[martinc]

Originally Posted by martinc

Troy:

Good to see you back with the Jazzers.
I particularly like the Jazzer A next to the Spiro Mittel E. The two strings match very well. I had the D on for a while too but it was a bit tinny. I found that a Helicore Pizz Med D works great in the string mix too without the tinny-ness. The tension works for me too. I have a Bel Canto G which is solid but not dull. I think it's because of the lighter tension D next to it. I know, I know......
Strange brew but it all works for me.
Maybe one of these days I will find a set I like but it has not happened yet.

Me again...maybe I will try some Velvet Garbos. A whole set!!!

[TroyK]

So after screwing around with a bunch of strings from my box-o-broken dreams, I placed an order for a new set of Jazzers. I'll reserve full observations until they've been broken in and road tested. For those of you just joining us, I have used them before, but it's been a few years.

Having them on and off my bass with a combination of weich and mittel spirocores was interesting. Generally, I stand by my partially subjective statement that they are close to smittels in gauge and close to sweichs in tension. On a string by string basis, they actually match either set pretty well. It should be noted that all of the strings I was testing were really past their useful life, except maybe the weichs, which are certainly end of life, but not past it yet. Sonically, there's a subtle difference. It's there, but it's subtle and even with mixed strings on, you'd have to have a pretty good ear to tell when I was playing on a jazzer vs a spirocore.

But, there is difference. Its fair to say that Spirocores are so complex sounding and the jazzers are something short of that. Everything bowed fine. I think probably if I had to score them on ease with the stick it would be weichs - jazzers - mittels but honestly an hour practicing with any of them would get you adjusted properly. Interestingly enough as I lowered and raised the adjusters on my bridge, I got that sense that pizz was maybe a little easier low and arco was maybe a little easier higher? Don't know, didn't spend that much time with it.

I went with Jazzers based on the feel. They are more supple than either set of Spirocores, meaning out of the pack, they're bendy. Strung up, they're similar, but I get a nice bounce out of them that is more of a snap with smittels. I may decide someday that the snap is more useful, but I've picked my horse and I'm going to ride her for a while. These are all good strings and none of them will keep me from playing my best.

Oh one more note. I mentioned this before, but for those of you (and sometimes me) who mix strings from different sets; I've learned that a string changes based on what you put next to it or around it if it's a D or an A. This is somewhat subjective, in that they feel tighter or looser or the sound subtly changes as you revolve G strings on and and off. But, my bass is setup to where the afterlengths are an 11th above the open string and with each strings change I test all of them to see if that is still true, not just the one I changed. And, the objective, in this case, results support that statement. Change one string and it effects the others. Be aware. Except in really usual circumstances, I will always start with a matched set and make changes only if I must.

By the way order placed with the Gollihur boys at 11:14 pst. Shipping confirmation with a tracking number by 11:22. I'm at a loss for a proper exclamation.

[Michael Glynn]

Originally Posted by TroyK

Oh one more note. I mentioned this before, but for those of you (and sometimes me) who mix strings from different sets; I've learned that a string changes based on what you put net to it or around it if it's a D or an A. This is somewhat subjective, in that they feel tighter or looser or the sound subtly changes as you revolve G strings on and and off. But, my bass it setup to where the afterlengths are an 11th above the open string and with each strings change I test all of them to see if that is still true, not just the one I changed. And, the objective, in this case, results support that statement. Change one string and it effects the others. Be aware. Except in really usual circumstances, I will always start with a matched set and make changes only if I must.

Absolutely true. I tried a bunch of G strings with my Spirocore solos. When I put on the Oliv G, not only did that string sound better, but it somehow made all of the other strings feel and sound better as well. It might be all in my head, but it definitely has an effect. Right from the start the whole bass felt like it was doing exactly what I wanted it to do.