Pirastro Permanents

pdbass · #1 10-23-2008, 10:32 PM

I'm a little surprised at what little attention these strings seem to be getting, particularly as a "hybrid" string. I just put them on, and WOW. I thought that I would post some thoughts, maybe a little review, if it helps.

I've been a Spiro guy almost as long as I've been playing the bass, which is about 20+ years. I play mostly jazz, but a healthy mix of classical, show stuff, and making unclassifiable sounds on the double bass on occasion. After brief flirtations (which lasted as long as 12 months) with Helicore (Hybrid, Pizz), Obligatos, and Evah Pirazzi, I just keep coming back to Spiros--Weichs and Mittels. I suppose I was willing to deal with what I didn't like about them because what they could do, they did WELL. I went to visit my luthier to get my fingerboard replaced and I played a bass in his shop. The strings were punchy, on the loud side, and felt good. I asked what they were and he told me "Permanents. They're great for jazz, you know." That stuck in my head for a while, and I went through what can only be described as the "Uncletoad Syndrome" that happens about every 6 months when you play Spiros--that and trying to play anything in thumb position arco seemed increasingly like WORK. I read some posts that Edgar Meyer was doing 2 Permanents and 2 Spiros (which could be right or wrong) and I thought I would try it out on a gig.

First impressions: this string is PUNCHY! The 'D' is a little dark for my tastes, especially after coming from Sprios, but these strings have a punchy pizz. They're very bright right out of the package, but totally usable, and not as bright as Sprios. Tension-wise, they're in between Weichs and Mittels which seemed great to me. You can dig in on these strings a little more. There is definitely more fundamental to the sound, less sustain, but little loss of volume. There might be fewer "sub-lows" but the string makes up for it with mids and presence (one of my criticisms of Spiros--much sub frequency, subdued mids). Arco was a delight. These strings start RIGHT up and I would even say that ease of bowing is better than Evah Pirazzi. They respond well to pressure and are extremely even. Some might not like the diameter of the string, though. These strings are a bit on the thin side (a la Weichs), so I decided to pair them with Spiro Weichs 'E' and 'A'. Volume-wise, it's a tremendous match, and the Spiros give me a bit of brightness and sustain on the bottom.

Tonight I played with a jazz quartet in a small theatre seating about 100 people. The music was aggressive, at times, sensitive at others (but damn hard). To give you an idea, we closed with "Yes Or No" by Wayne Shorter. I used an Underwood pickup on my 60-something Juzek carved 7/8ths bass. I played into a Markbass CMD 1x12 combo with a Fishman pre. What a sound! I like to have the amp just enhance the sound of the bass a little, with alot of acoustic sound coming off of the instrument. These strings excelled! There seemed to be a bit more sound coming off of the bass, acoustically, than when she wore Spiros (Mittels can make a pickup sound pretty LOUD, too), punchy, even throughout the range of the instrument. Dead-on with fundamental, much like Evahs, but with a much better sound coming through the amp for my tastes. The strings were not quite as tight as the Mittels, and although they stretched a little, were settled in for most of the night. They paired well with the Spiros, to me, anyway, feel-wise and sound-wise. I know that these seem to be a good choice for arco playing, but I was really delighted at how well they played jazz. I expect them to darken a bit (a la Evahs) and mellow out a somewhat metallic-sounding top-end and I expect to lose a bit of sustain eventually, but the fundamental was something I enjoyed playing--really, similar to Evahs with a couple of differences: thinner diameter, a little more elasticity, much better amplified sound. It's really nice to play a string with that kind of punch. The end of my story is that there was a bassist sitting in the middle of the house for the concert. I rushed him up onto stage to play my bass afterwards. He said he loved the way it sounded from where he sat. I'm liking these strings a lot so far, and I have a big classical gig starting Sat--which is what these strings were made for. I'm excited.

I'm interested in how these strings age, and will post updates, if anyone is interested. They sound great, though. I do keep thinking of something I read online, though (I think Ken said it): if you have a great bass, just about any string will sound good on it. I have to agree. My bass isn't great, but it's pretty good, well set up, and taken care of regularly. YMMV, but I'm really pleased with how these Permanents have played for me!

pdbass · #2 10-25-2008, 02:51 PM

And these strings aren't perfect, but they're damn good. You do have to pay attention a little to bow changes a bit--not as smooth as Obligatos but definitely not as bad Spiros--mind you, these are new strings, too. Excellent, full, easy sound with the bow and spicatto and playing over the bridge in general was MUCH more smooth and easy. Still had the huge volume.

One other note is that the classical pizz is really killing on this string. (note: classical pizz is a more percussive, shorter-sounding pizz than jazz pizz, which is more about sustain and string excursion). The classical pizz really leaps off the bass with these strings, unlike Spiros. That (sort-of) lack of mids that Sprios have is great for playing jazz, but when you do pizz in a section or a chamber group, it doesn't have nearly the bounce or definition.

So far, so good.

King Chris · #3 10-25-2008, 06:22 PM

I've heard good things from people about these strings but they are few and far between. I'm waiting on the arco string test at the top of the forum to see what he thinks of the strings. good review though. I"m rocking belcanto's and though I do primarily classical stuff, I think they aren't quite cutting it in the jazz realm. Why can't I just have two basses

. The belcanto E is a littel too "Thuddy" for me... and the A a bit also. They are great for solo work and do blend well in a section.

Stephen Koscica · #4 10-26-2008, 12:55 PM

I never thought about Pirastro Permanents being a "hybrid" string, but when you are amplifying the bass you can change some of the sound you get through that too. Good that Paul mentioned the settings and type of performance. It might be worth a try especially if you do a lot of bowing.

I use the Permanent E and A and Flexocor Original G and D. But again, this is on my orchestra bass and really only set up to maximise everything with the bow. The perms give me way more power and especially on the E string. I never like the E strings that come with Flexocores! I think compared to the way the rest of the strings respond, the E's (while they, the Flex's, match in timbre) miss on the response and attack with the bow. I used to use the Helicore E, but it was too much punch and actually felt tighter (with the left hand) than the Permanent.

I also have a lot of people combining a Spirocore E and A, with the Evah G and D. I wonder if Paul misses the growl of the Sprirocores though.

Stephen Koscica · #5 10-26-2008, 01:38 PM

While I have enjoyed reading Talkbass for some time, I am new to posting here. Didn't realize until after my "permanents" post, that my signature wasn't showing correctly. Thanks for your patience!

pdbass · #6 10-26-2008, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Koscica

I also have a lot of people combining a Spirocore E and A, with the Evah G and D. I wonder if Paul misses the growl of the Sprirocores though.

I've been using Spirocore E and A with Permanent G and D. I can still get that 'growl' in what's now a much more arco-friendly set. I really like the Permanents!