Possibly dropping the (Gamut) guts

**Adrian Cho** · #1 07-04-2008, 08:53 PM

It's been quite a while since I was here reading, let alone posting.

I'm going through a weird experience right now:

After years of playing on the Gamut Lyons on the top and the Permanents on the bottom, I'm considering ditching them. Before that setup I spent years on the Olivs/Eudoxas and before that I played the Animas in their earlier incarnation and in between at some point I've tried most of the other gut or gut-like strings - Chordas, Pizzicatos, Innovations, Obligatos, etc. Now I've decided to pull the trigger on a full set of the new Animas. I'm not even sure what the difference is between the current product and what I played years ago but I believe they were changed at some point.

I remember the black fingers and ripping up my finger tips and fingerboard with the coarse windings (I'm a pretty heavy-handed player but trying to be less so nowadays). Despite all that, I am inclined to try the Animas again. Oddly enough, I'm no longer hearing the gut sound in my head. That is, the sound I'm getting out of my bass (Shen 7/8 Willow) is not what I desire.

For about the last year, the Wizzy 10 and a Clarus SL has been my sole rig for amplification. Because of the Wizzy, the amplified sound I've been getting has been brighter than usual. I didn't like it for a long time but was not willing to give up the fantastic portability. This amplified sound was more different from my acoustic sound than ever before. I was also relying solely on the Full Circle even for concert gigs and despite having an AMT SP25B, I haven't used it for a long time. I would often finish a concert and then realise that perhaps I should have used the mic but I would never think of it beforehand - I would just decide that the Full Circle would be good enough. I believe what's happened is that I've grown more accustomed to this amplified sound and I'm finding my acoustic sound dull and tubby by comparison.

I was trying to think of what else I might like and I keep coming back to the Animas. I have this feeling that they will be louder than my current setup too which would be a wonderful thing in addition to getting some more bit and definition to the sound. We'll see.

Marcus Johnson · #2 07-04-2008, 08:59 PM

Wow. I did not see that coming.

Let us know how it works out, Adrian. I love Animas myself....if I could bow them, I'd probably still use them.

**Adrian Cho** · #3 07-04-2008, 09:03 PM

The interesting thing is seeing all the posts about the Animas being hard to bow. May be true (I can't remember how bad they were for arco). However the question for me is are they any harder to bow than the Gamuts? I can't imagine so.

Uncletoad · #4 07-04-2008, 09:06 PM

I really liked my sound with Animas. They hung up on me in the heat similar to Guts and the black stuff on the hands thing was a bummer.

Regardless I've often said I wouldn't mind going back to them at some point. They have an excellent amplified sound and that halfway between gut and spirocores thing is very compelling.

Keep us posted.

Uncletoad · #5 07-04-2008, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

However the question for me is are they any harder to bow than the Gamuts? I can't imagine so.

Nope.

jayarroz · #6 07-04-2008, 09:14 PM

yah didn't see that coming either.....I just tried the Anima Blue Velvets, I don't know what to say. They sound great very loud and bouncy, articulate.. Hard to bow though. I might be trying Uncletoad's recom. on some Belcanto GD with Spiro EA. Then again my Spiro's are starting to dull down and sound good too. I like Gamut on the Kay, it thumps thats what its good at, on the German carved I like a more articulate sound. I stick to the Anima's also!

**Adrian Cho** · #7 07-04-2008, 09:47 PM

Well I've ordered the strings so I will definitely be giving this a go. Should be here in a week or so. Unfortunately the C extension set is not that cheap - it will be close to $400 Canadian with taxes. Ouch. One nice thing about them steel strings - even if it's just on the bottom like I currently use em - not so damn expensive as all this gut and gut-like stuff.

jayarroz · #8 07-04-2008, 09:57 PM

do you really prefer the animas to a steel string? They just feel so rough, and they don't bow. I know you do arco stuff, I'm holding back from putting the velvets on because of the arco issue. Plus they don't seem as tight, harder to play fast.

Jason Sypher · #9 07-05-2008, 02:10 AM

You might have read that I recently moved to an all steel set up after being a big Gamut head for years. It was the same for me. I suddenly heard the bass differently. It was a bit puzzling at first but I approached it with an open mind and tried to free myself from my own rhetoric. Listening to that website where the guy plays all the different strings I found the Animas to be quite a nice hybrid of the two extremes (pure gut/spiro). I bow all the time so I need a good bowing string (funny that I used to think the gamuts bowed great). I settled on the Bel Canto D/G and my old Spiro mittels for the A and E. I just can't tell you how much my playing has grown since I made the switch. I hope that you have the same experience with your new Animas.

bonaventura · #10 07-05-2008, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

...Now I've decided to pull the trigger on a full set of the new Animas. I'm not even sure what the difference is between the current product and what I played years ago but I believe they were changed at some point.

I remember the black fingers and ripping up my finger tips and fingerboard with the coarse windings (I'm a pretty heavy-handed player but trying to be less so nowadays). Despite all that, I am inclined to try the Animas again.

Adrian

I played the "new" Animas (on the market 5 years now) during all of 2007. I was sorry to take them off, but I wanted to try gut strings.

Before I got the Animas I read your earlier postings about the windings blackening your fingers and eating up your fingerboard. I contacted Velvet and learned that they had developed a new version. The new version no longer contains gut, only silk, and the windings did not blacken my fingers or grind up the fingerboard at all.

They have a huge acoustic sound. They needed a long time to settle in. Bowing sounded good, somtimes a bit scratchy but they amplfied for me very well just with a pickup and are great unamped because they are so loud and full.

Now that you are taking the Gamuts off (your posts on Gamuts were so enthusiastic) was it the Gamuts or the Permanents that didn't sound right anymore? I guess you just wanted to try something new, or was it that the amped sound of the guts with the pickup doesn't sound like it did with the mic?

**Adrian Cho** · #11 07-05-2008, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayarroz

do you really prefer the animas to a steel string? They just feel so rough, and they don't bow. I know you do arco stuff, I'm holding back from putting the velvets on because of the arco issue. Plus they don't seem as tight, harder to play fast.

Well it's more for me that I can't find a steel string I like. Even without considering the sound, I find most steel strings too high tension and I can't stand playing small gauges especially on the upper strings. Even the Compas 180 I did not like for the exact reasons above.

**Adrian Cho** · #12 07-05-2008, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonaventura

Now that you are taking the Gamuts off (your posts on Gamuts were so enthusiastic) was it the Gamuts or the Permanents that didn't sound right anymore? I guess you just wanted to try something new, or was it that the amped sound of the guts with the pickup doesn't sound like it did with the mic?

I still think the Gamuts + Permanents are a totally great combination that will get you a gut sound that feels great and is stable and not super expensive. As we know, it depends very much on the bass. Steel strings on an old, dark carved bass are very different to steel strings on a bright plywood for example. Another factor for me may be my Shen Willow. When I got it, I just put on the same setup that I had on a previous bass without any thought. The bass was also brand new when I bought it and has definitely opened up since.

So in addition to a brighter sound in my head, I think what I'm saying is that the sound coming from the bass has turned out to be darker and with less definition than I would have liked it. I have been making it work in all kinds of situations from duos to big bands but it's very hard work and there are definite downsides when it is hard to be heard in a loud and/or complex mix of voices.

To answer your questions, I think it is mostly the Gamuts that I'm not digging any more (on this bass for what I am doing) but the Permanents are probably just as much a part of the picture and they have a very similar dark sound. As for the amplified sound, the pickup has contributed to a brighter amplified sound but it's very much the Wizzy 10 too.

**Jeremy Allen** · #13 07-05-2008, 09:30 AM

Here we go, round and round. I was wondering when Animas would pop up again, but I didn't think it would be on the bass of Adrian Cho!

I put the SONORES/Twine strings (the arco set) back on my bass after realizing that the maker wasn't in a hurry to get the trial set back, and I think they are just about my favorite string ever at this point. Huge sound, easy to bow, yet articulate. (They feel/respond kind of like Compas 180s.) I can't afford to buy them, but I became very infatuated with, how do you say it, the articulability of the string. So maybe Animas are in the future for me too, and this time around, having tried to bow on guts for the past couple of years, I will know that are in fact a breeze to bow.

At the moment, of course, I have Uncle Toad's old weich set (with an Oliv G) on the bass, and I'm extremely pleased. The key, I found, was to raise the action just to the point of being too high. There, they are very loud and the sound is wonderful--less twangy and bright than mittels were on that bass, for some reason. But they lack the huge fundamental/bloom of the SONORES strings, or of a fuller Oliv set. I can live with that for a little while.

**Adrian Cho** · #14 07-05-2008, 09:40 AM

I exchanged a bunch of e-mail with Gerold and I was very interested but the prices are insane...

I was quite impressed with myself for having totally given up the gear thing. Mostly I've just concentrated on playing and haven't cared about the gear. However I find that I am a) tiring of trying to be heard in certain situations and b) hearing certain recordings and wishing I could have more of an edge and definition to my sound. So yes, hear we go again...

**Adrian Cho** · #15 07-05-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

Listening to that website where the guy plays all the different strings I found the Animas to be quite a nice hybrid of the two extremes (pure gut/spiro).

What is the URL for that website again? I remember visiting it once.

greitzer · #16 07-05-2008, 12:45 PM

Adrian -- you may have already found it, but in case not, here it is. Mostly pizz, he only plays arco on a few of them.

http://www.hervejeanne.de/saitenmatrix.php

bonaventura · #17 07-06-2008, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

I was trying to think of what else I might like and I keep coming back to the Animas. I have this feeling that they will be louder than my current setup too which would be a wonderful thing in addition to getting some more bit and definition to the sound. We'll see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Cho

...So in addition to a brighter sound in my head, I think what I'm saying is that the sound coming from the bass has turned out to be darker and with less definition than I would have liked it.... I think it is mostly the Gamuts that I'm not digging any more (on this bass for what I am doing) but the Permanents are probably just as much a part of the picture and they have a very similar dark sound. As for the amplified sound, the pickup has contributed to a brighter amplified sound but it's very much the Wizzy 10 too.

so you got used to the brighter sound on the little Wizzy 110 -- and you've gotten to like that brighter sound. But now when you play acoustic (unamped), your combination of bass and strings creates a sound that's too dark and so you want to try a brighter, louder string. did i get it right?

if that's it, then the new Animas would be a good choice, i would think. really huge volume, bright-sounding strings. at first it was almost too bright for me, right out of the package they had a brashy almost metallic brightness that mellowed over the months. much more mid-range and overtones. a complex sound, centered but less focus than steel. i really got to like that sound. the bass i put them on was 2 years old then, a Gruenert 7/8 Jazzbass, pretty bright sounding bass, and the lower tension of the Animas really made it loosen up and sing. bowing sounded for me much like Oliv, a bit scratchier, but certainly good for occasional jazz bowing.

hopefully the Animas won't be "too bright" when amplified by the Clarus SL and Wizzy 10. i mean, if you liked that amp and cab with the Gamuts, the amped Animas might have too much mids. please post your impressions after you try them. i just ordered a Wizzy 10 from Bob G and would appreciate any comments you have.

**Francois Blais** · #18 07-06-2008, 09:09 AM

Since you mentioned the Permanents, Adrian, it may be worth noting the top ones (D&G) sound quite brighter than the bottom ones, which are quite dark.
Maybe you could mix Perms D&G with something else on the bottom. (Superflexibles come to mind)

Best regards,
François

KSB - Ken Smith · #19 07-06-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois

Since you mentioned the Permanents, Adrian, it may be worth noting the top ones (D&G) sound quite brighter than the bottom ones, which are quite dark.
Maybe you could mix Perms D&G with something else on the bottom. (Superflexibles come to mind)

Best regards,
François

I think going from Gut tops to Perms D&G would like be going from 'butter' to broken glass. The Perms are something close to Helicores and although the E string is used a lot for punch within a Flexicor set (Perm-E or Heli E) the top strings are thinner and brighter than Flex 92s.

I don't have a suggestion for you as nothing really feels or sounds like Guts. The strings made as either Synthetics or Gut Core strings have durability problems. Guts may sound good on one bass and not good on another.

I have two Basses with older Original Flexocors on them now (G,D,A only) and they sound nice once broken in. Perhaps that is a good mix for your Perms on the bottom. I have Perm Es on them mixed with the Orig. Flex G.D & A and although I bow on these Basses mainly, one of them (my old Bohemian) is my Jazz Bass as well. I also used Flex 92s G/D with Perm bottoms of two other Basses with good success.

My suggestion (a shot in the dark) is Orig Flex G/D, Perm A/E.

**Adrian Cho** · #20 07-06-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bonaventura

so you got used to the brighter sound on the little Wizzy 110 -- and you've gotten to like that brighter sound. But now when you play acoustic (unamped), your combination of bass and strings creates a sound that's too dark and so you want to try a brighter, louder string. did i get it right?

Yes that's it and I think the fact that my whole setup on my bass turned out to be darker (or got darker over time) than I expected.

You make a very good point about what will happen if I then amplify the Animas through the Full Circle, Clarus SL and Wizzy 10? Will it be too bright? Possibly. I really is interesting too that I used to be so into using a mic but haven't used one for such a long time.