Purely Arco Strings

PRUNEFACE · #1 03-16-2010, 01:31 PM

Yes, I have read the threads on the topic -there was only one, and that was for "orchestral" strings. I would like something that produces an excellent section sound while also being manageable for solos (think Eccles etc.). I've had the same strings (Obligatos) for over a year now, and I've noticed several things I don't care for about them, such as how they "roll" when played pizz. and how they don't have a stereotypical section bass sound... The only pizz I really need is the orchestral parts that are, well, pizzicato.
I am willing to mix and match strings (as long as I wouldn't have to buy two full sets to do so).
Do wound gut's (Eudoxas, Olivs,) or synthetic guts (Velvet Compas 180s) get a good full arco sound? I hear they're hard to bow, but can they get the tone? Would a gut/synthetic gut string on the E and A string paired with some easier strings on the top be a good combo?

Thanks, and please forgive me for my stream of consciousness posting.

PRUNEFACE · #2 03-16-2010, 04:03 PM

To clarify: By "stereotypical section bass sound" I was referring to the recordings of major orchestras and your decent area orchestras. I don't have some weird standard that no-one else has. Or at least I don't think I do...
ALL responses are welcome even if they come from a jazzer.

robgrow · #3 03-16-2010, 04:50 PM

FWIW all the members of the local symphony that I've known over the years have all used Pirastro Flexicores.

Andrew McGregor · #4 03-16-2010, 05:07 PM

I played Spiro Weichs in the orchestra for years.

Yes, that's weird. But it works. Solos at orchestra pitch also work, and are easier to deal with.

Someone in an orchestra needs a decent pizz tone. It need only really be one player, but it has to be there, especially for more recent repertoire from, say, Stravinski on. Get to mid-century and it's better that everyone has a good pizz.

PRUNEFACE · #5 03-16-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor

I played Spiro Weichs in the orchestra for years.

Yes, that's weird. But it works. Solos at orchestra pitch also work, and are easier to deal with.

Someone in an orchestra needs a decent pizz tone. It need only really be one player, but it has to be there, especially for more recent repertoire from, say, Stravinski on. Get to mid-century and it's better that everyone has a good pizz.

Those are actually what my teacher (who is getting his DMA in DB Performance at FSU) uses.

PRUNEFACE · #6 03-16-2010, 05:28 PM

Does anyone have experience with mixed steel/gut sets? I've already seen the Eudoxa/Oliv sets but can't find any samples of them being bowed.

**Francois Blais** · #7 03-16-2010, 06:50 PM

How about BelCantos?

PRUNEFACE · #8 03-16-2010, 07:35 PM

The Belcantos intrigue me as do the Original Flexocors. I just wish more people frequented this forum; I'm sure some of the main Basses page have lots to say on this topic.

ADissen · #9 03-16-2010, 08:02 PM

I personally really dig both belcantos and spirocores. Each have their own unique characters, but both I think are both great arco strings. Spiros are bright upfront, but lose their edge and brightness a couple of feet away and they make it quite easy to hear yourself while in the section. They also project very well. Belcantos are more forgiving with the bow and have more length and warmth IMO. I don't think they are "easier" to bow that spiros, just more forgiving. If your bow technique isn't great then neither Belcantos or Spiros will sound at their full potential. Right now i am using belcantos and I think that they might take the Original Flex's spot as the go to arco string. A lot of people I know use belcantos, and while fewer people use Spiros for only arco, the ones I know that use them sound amazing and have probably tried every string available. I say try both.

Phil Rowan · #10 03-16-2010, 09:01 PM

I've been pretty happy w/ Spiro Mittels on the bass I use mostly for orchestral playing (B. Lang hybrid), and I think they'd also be good for solo work.. I've been learning some solo stuff on my own and they definitely have the right amount of brightness with great projection. I've had them on since September and their sound is getting warmer and warmer. Like ADissen said, it helps to have a good arco technique with these strings.. I feel like they also improve your arco technique if you stick with them and learn to make them sound good.

ADissen · #11 03-16-2010, 09:13 PM

+1

I use Spiro Solos for any solo work I do. Hal Robinson uses Spiro Mittels on his solo bass. Like Mr. Rowan said, Spiros help get your arco in shape, they'll tell you when something is amiss.

PRUNEFACE · #12 03-17-2010, 05:49 PM

"... it is all about the instrument's set up. Medium gauge Supreme from super sensitive, or Pirastro orchestra, or maybe Tomastik orchestra medium would work on you bass for jazz as well."
From my teacher.
Still curious as hell about those Eudoxa/Oliv combos!

Phil Rowan · #13 03-17-2010, 06:09 PM

The thing I'd be worried about with using gut core strings (aside from their intonation issues) would be the instrument's ability to produce a powerful enough sound to match the rest of the section/orchestra. I'm sure it depends a lot on the bass and of course on the player, but I would think steel strings, with their added tension, would be desirable for the power they can put out. Anyway, just my 2 cents.

Amin · #14 03-17-2010, 06:13 PM

As for the Eudoxa (E A) / Oliv (D G) combo....

I have tried it, like many others here on TB.
I have to say they have a very warm, deep, round, big, fat, dark sound.
I really enjoyed the sonic result of that combo. I have to say I prefer Eudoxas (even on d -incredible string- and g), they have more focus and clarity, and that helps articulation and intonation. My bass sounded 100years older..wonderful.. But Olivs were just too dark...quite muddy...while I like so much to hear the note clearly..
Anyway, in my opinion, they are not strings for any kind of solo repertoire or some symphonic works... if you have to play Bach, Vivaldi, or any other baroque work, they are great, but when you need fast articulation, clarity, bow pressure, they won't help.
I put them off 15days after having installed them... they are interesting strings, but they are a different idea of string and require a different way to use the bow.. lighter and faster... and you need to articulate more with the bow to have the note clear out..
Now I am back to steel string.
And I am very happy... Evolution sometimes brings good innovations...
This is just my opinion and experience... Other bass players would tell they are absolutely fantastic, and they're worth. It's just a matter of what you need, what you are looking for..
Hope this helps.

all the best

PRUNEFACE · #15 03-17-2010, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amin

As for the Eudoxa (E A) / Oliv (D G) combo....

I have tried it, like many others here on TB.
I have to say they have a very warm, deep, round, big, fat, dark sound.
I really enjoyed the sonic result of that combo. I have to say I prefer Eudoxas (even on d -incredible string- and g), they have more focus and clarity, and that helps articulation and intonation. My bass sounded 100years older..wonderful.. But Olivs were just too dark...quite muddy...while I like so much to hear the note clearly..
Anyway, in my opinion, they are not strings for any kind of solo repertoire or some symphonic works... if you have to play Bach, Vivaldi, or any other baroque work, they are great, but when you need fast articulation, clarity, bow pressure, they won't help.
I put them off 15days after having installed them... they are interesting strings, but they are a different idea of string and require a different way to use the bow.. lighter and faster... and you need to articulate more with the bow to have the note clear out..
Now I am back to steel string.
And I am very happy... Evolution sometimes brings good innovations...
This is just my opinion and experience... Other bass players would tell they are absolutely fantastic, and they're worth. It's just a matter of what you need, what you are looking for..
Hope this helps.

all the best

Thanks, I really appreciate the response. I suppose that when I get strings I will probably consider the Original Flexocores/Spirocores/Belcantos.
I plan on having a conversation with my teacher regarding strings this Sunday.

AMJBASS · #16 03-18-2010, 02:25 PM

My favorite strings with the bow are still the Pirastro Flexocor Regular(called 92's by some). They are dark, are very easy to play. Pirastro Olives are nice as well, but they don't last as long as I'd like...(especially at $100 for a G!).

JoeyNaeger · #17 03-18-2010, 03:20 PM

A lot of the pro classical bassists in Houston are using Belcantos now. I have them as well and don't see the need to change them. They have a nice pizzicato tone as well IMO.

PRUNEFACE · #18 03-18-2010, 03:53 PM

Anyone have sounds clips to compare the arco sound of the oliv/eudoxa combo arco?

MDEbass · #19 03-18-2010, 06:10 PM

+1 on the Belcantos. That's what I use, and what I see most orchestral players use. Like others have said, great warm arco, but also has a nice pizz so they sound great in any orchestral setting.

Bijoux · #20 03-18-2010, 06:18 PM

does anyone uses evah Pirazzi as a purely orchestra string?