Reading for days, what do I need???

phaneo · #1 11-12-2009, 10:26 PM

Ok, so I have been in this forum too long trying to figure out what strings to try. I don't know what strings are currently on my bass I've looked at the String indentifyer thread and they aren't listed. Anyway, I'm playing a laminate bass mostly pizz just trying to get my technique and strength built up. I'm moving from EB. I'm only 5'4" tall and have really small hands so string tension is key. My current strings feel ok tension wise, but they are definitely dead. I like the sound of guts on the high end and want a nice low end. Basically I'm looking for something that will be good all around for jazz/blues/acoustic rock and that will last.

Thanks

kscbass · #2 11-13-2009, 10:23 AM

Describe the strings you have on your bass right now. The most common suggestion I think you'll get is Thomastik Spirocore Weichs.

Phil Rowan · #3 11-13-2009, 10:34 AM

Spiro Weichs or Eva Pirazi Weichs.. Spiros would probably last longer (right?).

kscbass · #4 11-13-2009, 10:50 AM

Because the OP said that he would be playing mainly pizz I think Spiro Weichs would be best. Remember that Evah Pirazzi Weichs are similar to Spiro Mediums tension wise. I've had Spiro Weichs (E Mittel) on my bass for 3 years and really love them.

mje · #5 11-13-2009, 04:30 PM

My experience is that the Evah Weichs felt softer than the Spiro Weichs, and my nephew noted that he felt this was the case as well. I loved the sound of the EP weichs for pizz.

Eric Hochberg · #6 11-13-2009, 08:52 PM

You can't go wrong with either. Spiros are brighter and will probably last a lot longer.

phaneo · #7 11-13-2009, 09:52 PM

Thanks guys! I'll look for a set of Spiro Weichs I'll post my thoughts

olivieraleman · #8 11-13-2009, 10:32 PM

I recently went from spiro weich to ep weich, by way of several other sets, and the ep weichs are easier to play on my bass than the spiros. john

phaneo · #9 11-13-2009, 10:38 PM

Well now that's 2 + a nephew for the ep weichs. what will I do...

kscbass · #10 11-13-2009, 11:11 PM

Wait till' they show up used in the classifieds and try them both.

olivieraleman · #11 11-14-2009, 12:40 AM

I recently had Animas, and then Lenzner guts, before the EP Weichs, and the EP weichs are at least as easy to play as those sets, but thats in my home without competing with other instruments, see what I mean? Guts are supposed to be low tension, yet I had to work harder with them to project on the bandstand. The EP weichs are rich and fat in my practice room, but harder to amplify with my bass. So the amount of energy you expend isnt always in the left hand. Hope this is some help, just my findings after a year of trying different strings in both home and live settings. john

olivieraleman · #12 11-14-2009, 12:43 AM

kscbass
Very true, from my experience there is no way to tell without spending the dough and seeing what happens on your bass. john

phaneo · #13 11-14-2009, 12:59 AM

There's a a set of EP Weichs for $135 in the classifieds. think I'll give them a shot to start.

Phil Rowan · #14 11-14-2009, 11:00 AM

olivieraleman, i had lenzner D and G guts on my kay and i had a hard time w/ them because they were too too low tension, even for guts. now i have an artone g and red-o-ray d.. the g has a real nice tension, but the g is still a little softer than i'd like, but i can still make it work. ime, the lenzners didn't work at all for me.

olivieraleman · #15 11-14-2009, 11:31 AM

Phil, Im hip. Just because strings are low tension doesnt mean they are easier to play.

Phaneo, will you be playing amplified? One thing I noticed with my bass was that the EP weichs didnt work well with my pickup, through my amp, but worked ok straight into house pa. I use a splitter box and send my signal to my amp and house pa and blend the 2. Something to consider. john

Phil Rowan · #16 11-14-2009, 11:40 AM

right, didn't mean to imply you weren't hip.. i was backing up your hipness by relating my hipness to our mutually unhip experience w/ the lenzners. too much tension gives a certain difficulty w/ playing, too low gives another.

olivieraleman · #17 11-14-2009, 04:48 PM

Solid daddy-o, I dig and I know you dig it too.

Mark Perna · #18 11-14-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by olivieraleman

Guts are supposed to be low tension, yet I had to work harder with them to project on the bandstand. john

I've never tried Lenzners. I've been using Gamuts so there might be issues that are specific to Lenzners that I'm not aware of. You had them on for what, a week or two? In general, that's really not enough time learn how to play on guts (unless you're Marcus Johnson

. They are different than steel and require a different touch.

They also require changing how you hear the bass. Gut has much less mid-range than steel but has a very strong low end. Most people, when they first try gut, try to bring out the mid-range (because that's what they're used to hearing with steel) by plucking harder (pounding the crap out of them actually) and then they get frustrated (and a sore right hand) when that doesn't work. Meanwhile there is a HUGE amount of low end plowing out there that you're not hearing because you're not used to listening for it.

You have to LIGHTEN your touch which can be really hard to do when you're used to cranking on Spiros. It needs to be firm but relaxed and you have to pull through the string. Your right shoulder to your wrist should be almost completely relaxed. If you can find the balance point between firmness and relaxation, you will get an amazing amount of projection this way with very little effort. It also takes a decent amount of time and practice to learn to do this at all much less well. Actually, this is how you should play on steel strings too. The difference is you can manhandle steel and it responds to it even if that isn't the most efficient use of your energy. Gut doesn't respond to it. The sound chokes if you try to pound it too hard.

It took me about 3 months of serious practice to get my gut chops up to steel levels after switching over and probably 4 or 5 months before my touch was together enough to really project. It was a bit of a struggle at first. Now, I can't imagine ever using steel again. Low tension, lots of power, louder, punchier and significantly easier on my hands. Plus the sound is to die for.

About Evah Pirazzi: We have something in common here. I tried the regular Evahs a couple of years ago and I loved them acoustically but I hated them through the amp. For whatever reason, they sounded like I was playing on plastic strings through the amp. I lasted about a week with them. I had three gigs that week and the night after the 3rd gig, they came off and I put Spiros back on.

For the OP, if you like the sound of guts on top, why not go with guts on top? If you don't want to try guts on the bottom, Garbos work very well with gut D and G. There are a couple of good gut string makers out there. I have lots of experience with Gamuts and can strongly recommend them.

mark

Marcus Johnson · #19 11-14-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calivox

I You had them on for what, a week or two? In general, that's really not enough time learn how to play on guts (unless you're Marcus Johnson

. They are different than steel and require a different touch.

Hey man, don't drag me into this!

But, yeah... guts=pretty much the duck to water situation for me.

Great post, ... a coupla things....

1.) I think that UNCATOAD's contention that gut changes the way you play is valid and true. I've clearly drunk the gut Koolaid, and I have absolutely no plans of going back to steel or hybrid strings... but I think that what one learns from playing them carries over into one's technique, and positively affects how that player approaches jazz pizz technique, regardless of the string choice.

2.) I've played a lot of ply basses strung with low/medium level guts that were pretty uninspiring at best. My enthusiasm for guts comes almost solely from playing the excellent Gamut guts on my equally excellent NS La Scala. It is a very happy combination that works perfectly for my purposes.

I often suggest Spiro Weichs for new players with ply basses, because they seem to bring a little life to the party when the bass isn't quite up for it... and they're somewhat familiar to players who are weaning themselves from the bass guitar. I can also heartily recommend the Gamuts for anyone wanting to use guts.

Phaneo, I can look around in my string drawer for an old set of Weichs if you like... I'm pretty sure there are some out there in the shed. They're usually better after they've been whacked on for awhile.

olivieraleman · #20 11-14-2009, 08:51 PM

Mark
I wanted the OP to consider that low tension doesnt necessarily mean ease of playing, quite the contrary in my limited experience. Guts are alot of work to master, as you well know, so the commitment, practice, maintenance and so forth seems to make up for the low tension. Actually i loved the sound of the G and A, and they gave me a taste of what it must be like to have quaility, even sounding guts. If Phaneo is just getting into this thing I didnt want him/her to think low tension guts was an easy row to hoe! I still owe you some home cooked food and home made wine, by the way. John