Red-O-Ray strings?

[MollyKay]

I want to understand what a Red-O-Ray string is.

I purchased a set of vintage gut strings a while back; they were a full set of LaBella red gut strings. Plain red gut G&D, silver wound A&E. The original packaging was all in tact, that thin tissue paper stuff…I thought they were Red-O-Rays. But now I have another red string on a bass that we bought. These strings are the G & D and they too are red with a plastic wrapping that feels and looks like a Super Nil. The inside of the string is definitely gut, but I was surprised to see the gut string incased in this clear plastic like cover. The silks at the loop are baby blue and gold.

So which string is the real Red-O-Ray and why are they desirable…what makes them different then other gut strings…other then a cool color. I think the strings look like red shoe string licorice. I don’t know why I am attracted to this old stuff but they are going to look real good on a dark tobacco brown bass someday.

[Bobby King]

Hi Molly!

Red-O-Rays were made by Kaplan, the same company that made Golden Spirals. I have had or seen plain gut Red-o-Rays, metal roundwound/gut cores, and also a Red-O-Ray A string that had a red nylon wrap. I've never seen one that had that whitish nylon that Superils have.

Labella also made a Red Gut set.

I also had some German "Fisoma" brand gut strings that were red, or red gut core.

The Red-O-Rays also had a slightly waxy treated finish which was moisture resistant. Other older guts like Sweetone also had this finish. These were good gut strings, but IMO there was nothing magical about them, some nice Gamuts would sound as good or better. There's a mystique about them, popular with rockabillies and bluegrassers, probably because they look cool.

I think the whole notion of dyed gut strings comes from harp strings, which were dyed various colors as a way of helping the player visually identify them. They don't sound any different as a result.

[Bobby King]

Golden Spirals were blue and gold at the loops (if I remember correctly). They were nylon wrapped, but the gut core was not dyed. Maybe the G and D you have were something made by Kaplan that was a Red-O-Ray/Golden Spiral combination.

[Wallyphonic]

Yes, Kaplan made Red-O-Rays with the same clear nylon wrap as the Golden Spirals. I used to use golden spirals - plain G & D (you could get them with or without the nylon wrap) and metal wrapped A & E. The metal was kind of half-round and really durable. They were really nice, much better than La Bellas which were the only other gut strings I could find new at the time. If memory serves the Red-O-Rays sounded and felt the same as the Golden Spirals, but that was 20+ years ago. I wish they still made them.

[superman]

There are at least 3 different"generations" of red o rays,,you have the 1st which came out in the 40s or50s which were either plain gut g&d,or what they called Miracle wound which is the plastic "Tynex" wound strings,these also sold under the name Golden Spiral which came either way but they were natural in color,, I have also seen old stock of the wound strings with the brand of Conn,, which was a popular band inst company. Also in the 40s-60s Labella made plain red strings,but I have never seen any tynex labellas,I have also seen plain guts that were green and once a purple string, I'm not sure who made those,,You also had red strings from Artone,which are absolutly the best gut string I have ever seen,,they made a Gold Label, and Red Label, Artones has gold and purple silk on the red strings, and gold and blue on the plain strings.
Sometime back in the mid 80s someone revived the trade name RedO Ray and Golden Spiral,,they also came either Tynex wound or plain gut on the G&D and the A&E were silver wound,,these stock lasted for just a year or two then they were gone,,then in the 90s Daddario came out with them again,,this time you could get them in light,medium,and heavy gage,,also they offered a Tynex wrapped A string,,the A&E were also changed to a type of "ground round "wire,,which was very hard on the fingers,,the A&Es went away soon, but you could still get the Tynex G&D up untill about 2000,I was working for Patty Loveless at the time and they had a string endorsment with D Addario,,and I cleaned out their stock of heavy G&D golden spirals,,the Reds were all gone a few years before that. I keep hearing rumors they might start back production again,,but nothing for sure,,,hope this helps,,Kent

[Bobby King]

Hey Kent! (now here's a guy that knows his guts!) I moved to Nashville in 1991 and got my first Golden Spirals from George Chestnut (RIP). I think they were the D'Addario version at that point. George always recommended Spiro medium E&A with Golden Spiral D&G. Then for a while, he had Richard Cocco custom making a tynex wound, gut core string for him. They were really nice, but I don't think he could sell enough to make it worth R. Cocco's while to keep making them.

It seems like people still can occasionally find Red-O-Rays. You'll see them on Ebay or Talkbass from time to time. I once found an unused, red tynex wrapped, Red-O-Ray A string, I never tried it, I sold it.

These days, in terms of nylon/tynex wrapped guts, you can get Labella's Goldentone, but they're very floppy feeling, IMO. And Pirastro makes a nylon wrapped G and D in their Pizzicato series. I liked the G, but the D was really huge and didn't sound good.

Someone really should make a string like those again. I asked Dan Larson about it once, be he gave me a very snarky "we dont do that ..." sort of answer.

[MollyKay]

Okay…finally I can get back to this thread with pictures. Here are pictures of the various red gut and plain gut strings I have in my vintage collection. I think I am beginning to understand a red string does not equal a Red-O-Ray.

This is a full set of LaBella Red gut



The plain G red gut LaBella



The silver wrapped A red gut LaBella



The paper tag inside the packaging



Artone plain G gut with blue and gold silks



A Sweetone plain D never used



The next three images are what I would guess to be a true Red-O-Ray with the Tynex winding around the red gut. These have yellow silks.







Hope these images document the differences.

[Alexi David]

ARTONE also made red gut strings - I have a set

[Phil Rowan]

Molly, are the the silks at the tailpiece end light green and yellow (of the Tynex string)?

[james condino]

I've got one of those red Labella Ds on my bass right now. I pulled it off an old broken Kay last year. After a bit of string rehab and oiling, it really is a good string. I've tried about a half dozen other Ds this year and so far, I'm keeping this one. I find the color to be less than desirable; how many times do I need to keep answering to, " Why is that string red?" every time I break it out.

j.

[Fletcher Lanning]

I was guilty of that question the first time I ever saw gut strings. I was a sad little slab player at a jazz festival lol.

[Paul Warburton]

Here's a cop of an old Gerry Mulligan side. You can't really see them in this shot, but Bill Crow's bass is strung with the original Red O Ray G & D strings. They were next popular for jazz strings after Artones in our day.
Bob Brookmeyer Dave Bailey, and Gerry also on that cover.

EDIT: I do a brief schtick about jazz bass strings in this international DB site down towards the bottom of the page......

http://www.doublebassguide.com/?page_id=9

[AndreasH]

Beautiful pics... Is that Sweetone varnished?

[Phil Rowan]

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Here's a cop of an old Gerry Mulligan side. You can't really see them in this shot, but Bill Crow's bass is strung with the original Red O Ray G & D strings. They were next popular for jazz strings after Artones in our day.
Bob Brookmeyer Dave Bailey, and Gerry also on that cover.

EDIT: I do a brief schtick about jazz bass strings in this international DB site down towards the bottom of the page......

http://www.doublebassguide.com/?page_id=9

I used to have this LP.. some nice stuff on there.

[MollyKay]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

Molly, are the the silks at the tailpiece end light green and yellow (of the Tynex string)?

They look all light yellow or maybe a faded green that has turned white'ish. I have no idea how old they are.

[MollyKay]

Originally Posted by AndreasH

Beautiful pics... Is that Sweetone varnished?

Yep...it sure looks like it.

[AndreasH]

Originally Posted by MollyKay

Yep...it sure looks like it.

It seems like they called it "Italian finish" back then!

[bromius]

For the reckless ones, I wrote 3 years ago a special page on the subject in a French forum: Enquête sur les cordes de Scott LaFaro
Here are some photos of Red-O-Ray strings sold some years ago in ebay (sadly I was not the happy bidder)...
A string



Attached thumbnails :
D string & G string