Scale length question

[sonicvi]

Is scale length measured from the top or the bottom of the nut to the bridge?

[Bobby King]

More or less the point where the nut and fingerboard meet.

[Bass Below]

I have a scale length question as well. I'm very much in the dark when it comes to double bass, I'm trying to learn a bit here. I've only ever played electric bass guitar...

Anyway, what I'm wondering is in regards to string length and scale length. When the manufacturer states that the string is 110cm, does that refer to the scale length or the actual winding length of the string?

[JustDavid]

Originally Posted by sonicvi

Is scale length measured from the top or the bottom of the nut to the bridge?

I've always heard 'scale' referring to the vibrating portion of the string.

[Jake deVilliers]

B Below, that 110cm is properly called the mensure, the string length from nut to bridge.

110cm is a 4/4 mensure - 3/4 is more like 105 - 106cm. Check the Newbie Links for the information you're looking for.

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

B Below, that 110cm is properly called the mensure, the string length from nut to bridge.

110cm is a 4/4 mensure - 3/4 is more like 105 - 106cm. Check the Newbie Links for the information you're looking for.

Thank you. I've been slowly getting through all of that stuff. I'm not a double bass player, I hope to be one day but I know it's not going to happen in the near future.

I have a unique interest in upright strings. I play an electric bass guitar called a Knuckle Quake, which has a 39.5" scale length. I'm a flats player but the only strings currently wound for this scale length are roundwound. Upright strings will undoubtedly give me the length necessary (seems like I could even use 3/4 scale), and I'm assuming I'll have to go with a metal core string. My concern is that on an upright bass there is a huge area between the ball end and where it contacts the bridge. Some of the strings I'm looking at have silk on most of that length, which is not that big of a deal. My bigger concern I guess is the tuning end of the string and if and where it begins to taper as well as if there is a taper between the ball and bridge.

Due to the massive expense of upright strings, I don't really feel like buying a set just to experiment, so I'm going to try to collect every single measurement that I can before I go ahead and make what could be a $200+ investment that may very well wind up a complete waste of money.

I also need the strings to be of the heaviest gauge possible since I tune my 5th string at G#0. The Spirocore Orchestra Stark strings seem like my best hope at this point in my research, next would be the D'Addario Helicore Heavy set, only problem with the Helicores is that they don't have a heavy B, whereas the Spirocore does offer a Stark B. The only thing that would steer me towrads the Helicores would be the fact that the set would probably cost me about $100 less.

Anyway Jake, thanks for pointing me in a direction. I'll let you know how it progresses.

[Eric Hochberg]

The ball ends on most upright strings are much larger than those found on bass guitar strings and could be a problem for your bass. FYI, those starks are really heavy, never seen anything like it in the BG world. For your scale length, you may need shorter strings as in 1/2 size bass.

Good luck, but I think I would try to convince your bass manufacturer to request flat wounds from the string factory that makes his.

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

The ball ends on most upright strings are much larger than those found on bass guitar strings and could be a problem for your bass. FYI, those starks are really heavy, never seen anything like it in the BG world. For your scale length, you may need shorter strings as in 1/2 size bass.

Good luck, but I think I would try to convince your bass manufacturer to request flat wounds from the string factory that makes his.

The bridge design on my bass seems like it would allow a larger than usual ball end, but thats something else that's on my list of things I would need to be sure of before I invested in a set. I'm also quite handy and creative, so as long as there were enough material to grind away without compromising the functionality of the ball end, I'd be able to work around that.

The fact that the Starks are heavy is what draws my interest. On my standard scale bass I use a .175 as my G# string. On my 39.5" scale I think it's a .145, but I'm not sure, I've only had the bass a week.

My bass builder is working on making flats available for his basses, but I'm unfortunately cursed with a very small amount of patience

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

FYI, those starks are really heavy, never seen anything like it in the BG world.

Just found this in the stickies:

Thomastik Spirocore G D A E
Solo .044 .061 .076 .103
Weich .046 .063 .079 .107
Medium .052 .070 .085 .111
Stark .054 .065 .090 .117

According to those gauge estimates, you are very correct. The Starks would be quite a bit more tension than I need. In fact, after doing some calculations, it looks like a set with gauges similar to the Weich set would be ideal. That set gives me close to around 40 lbs. of tension all across the board at my tuning on a 39.5" scale.

Now the next hurdle seems to be finding a 1/2 size low B string...

[Jake deVilliers]

I bet you'd do well with a set of 1/2 size Spiro Mittels and a 3/4 Mittel E.

Can't you pay a visit to your friendly neighbourhood bass luthier and try some strings on there?

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

I bet you'd do well with a set of 1/2 size Spiro Mittels and a 3/4 Mittel E.

Can't you pay a visit to your friendly neighbourhood bass luthier and try some strings on there?

It's been a while since I've run into any friendly people here in NYC

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely look into it. Ive been searching and I'm having a hard time finding any information on the gauge of any of the low B strings. Ideally the gauge that would work for me would be in the 145-150 range. It looks like even the E string on the Stark set is only about a .120, so that's not quite enough for my low string. I'll need to find some specs on those B strings.

Thanks for all your help Jake.

[EggyToast]

Fair warning -- many strings for an upright bass, especially the low-E, are made for the specific tuning machines found on an upright bass, not for the tuning machines on a bass guitar.

I had an Ergo upright which I got new strings for -- Superflexibles -- and the E was much too long, as the column it would wrap around is only about an inch above the nut. So I broke out my wirecutter, snipped the end... and watched in horror as the steel cabling unwound, ruining the string utterly.

After some ordeal buying a replacement solo (realizing that a "solo E" is quite different from a "just an E" string), I left the string completely intact, and ended up with a huge wad of coiled string on the machine, requiring a good amount of trial & error to actually get the entire string on there, let alone tuned up.

Once there, it stayed put and sounded great, of course, but that was with 42". You would have 2.5" less than what I had.

Perhaps a good way for you to test this is to ask around here to see if anyone has a beat-up old E, or other single string, to do some tests with. If you can't even wind up the E, you'll know not to spend more time worrying about it.


As for the silk at the bottom, what you can do is just take a razor blade, cut into it and unwrap it, and then take some heat-shrink tubing and seal the end. nice, clean end of the silk at whatever lenght you need for your bridge. Again, I had to do this on my old electric upright.

What else you could do is hop into the EUB forum here and hop into the ergo thread. Or go to http://www.planadmin.us/ergo/ and drop Jesse an email, asking him how much a set of his strings are. He makes upright and electric basses, and would probably be an excellent resource for your hunt, given the in-between nature of your instrument.

[Bass Below]

Great info Eggy, thanks so much. Wow, I really like you upright guys

[Bass Below]

Originally Posted by EggyToast

Or go to http://www.planadmin.us/ergo/ and drop Jesse an email, asking him how much a set of his strings are. He makes upright and electric basses, and would probably be an excellent resource for your hunt, given the in-between nature of your instrument.

Can't thank you enough for that info. Jesse wrote me back within minutes and pointed me towards a possible solution, much more promising than anything I was coming up with on my own. Great guy.