Solved a problem, has this ever happened to you? Please read and comment, could help.

[lincland]

Last week I put on a set of Spiro Weichs I've had for a few years, but never used them very much. They have maybe 6 weeks of wear total on them. (I was using Corelli's and wanted something different. Again.)

So I used them on two gigs and concluded I hate the G. Maybe it's my bass, but it's just so thin especially as compared to the A and E. There is just no tone.

So I swapped out the G for a Spiro Mittel G. (I've also had those for a few years, and haven't used them much...I don't have lots of strings lying around my house, only about 4 sets.)

Ok, so the Mittel G and the other Weichs are sounding really good, and balanced. However, I was getting some bad buzzing up at the F and F# and up higher on the A. Not the good kind of buzzing, but the bad kind that inhibits the note.

I know a fatter string needs a little more clearance, but it's not that much bitter, and my action wasn't that low.

So I thought maybe the string had imporfections, and sanded it a little with 400 grit. It didn't help.

Then I remembered something someone asked me once about Spirocores. It sounded like an old wive's tale, but the theory it that they need to be perfectly straight when you put them on. Meaning that the alignment needs to be straight and not twisted.

I always thought that was BS, but I decided to loosen it up and turn the ball some then twist the string below the bridge and turn it some. Maybe if nothing else it a different side would be against the fingerboard.

Low and behold, it worked. At least it worked enough. The F# is still a little funny, and not the D buzzes in a really good say, so i'm quitting while I'm ahead.

My question is, have any of you had experiences like this? (Turning and twisting strings and such). Also, have any of you ever heard this story about Spirocores? I remember that it has something to do with they way they are manufactured, and the ball of held vertically while they are being wrapped, so you need to mount them that way? I think ti's BS, but still I was wondering.

thanks.

Lincoln

[dmusic148]

Electric strings do this too, interesting.

[wayne holmes]

yes,yes. same experience

[moles]

I don't think that's an old-wives tale. It's happened to me at least once.

The part that I'm still wondering about is - if you take a new set of, say, Spirocores and wind them up perfectly straight...what happens to the core during the 'break-in' process? It seems like it's easier to install a string twisted once it's been on and off (and on again...) the bass once already. When I take a set of strings off the bass, you can tell from the bend on both ends how they were installed, and the bends never seem to line up, almost as if something has gone on inside that would cause the string to *look* twisted when it's off.
I suppose the correct way to re-install a string is to make sure the ball-end and the peg end are placed exactly where the bends from the previous usage are (provided it was installed correctly in the first place). Maybe this is wrong though?

[xwtb]

Originally Posted by lincland

I remembered something someone asked me once about Spirocores. It sounded like an old wive's tale, but the theory is that they need to be perfectly straight when you put them on. Meaning that the alignment needs to be straight and not twisted.

...it has something to do with they way they are manufactured, and the ball is held vertically while they are being wrapped, so you need to mount them that way?

There's a possible physical basis for this tale of twisted strings. If you think about what happens when you coil up a hose or a rope, you know that the loose end flops all around in the process, and that if you don't let it, you're asking for a kink.

Theoretically, the situation is the same with a string as it is wound around the drum of a tuner. But if the objective is to keep the string as much as possible like it was manufactured to be, then the end should be allowed to twist as you wind it-- or, failing that, the end should be twisted after the winding is almost done (presumably before serious tension is put on the string. )

Given that the drum of a typical tuner turns counter-clockwise to wind the string, the string is being given a 360 degree c-cw twist with each full wrap, and the end needs to move that much also, per wrap, to stay even. Otherwise, theoretically, the winding on the string could be getting tighter or looser; likewise could the twist of a twisted core.

Maybe strings should be made with a swivel at the end?

[sjd007]

Originally Posted by xwtb

Given that the drum of a typical tuner turns counter-clockwise to wind the string, the string is being given a 360 degree c-cw twist with each full wrap, and the end needs to move that much also, per wrap, to stay even. Otherwise, theoretically, the winding on the string could be getting tighter or looser; likewise could the twist of a twisted core.

Maybe strings should be made with a swivel at the end?

I'm sorry but have to disagree - if you wind a string around a static drum then yes, it will twist. If you have a static string and just wind the drum, then it does not twist the string.

[xwtb]

But, in my hose-reel analogy, it's exactly the drum that's turning and winding up the hose; so I'll stand by my claim. The hose doesn't _have_ to twist, but if you don't let it, you won't get a smooth coil.

What's going on, I think, is that the hose (or rope, line, or string) is "trying" to maintain its cross-sectional integrity, by constantly changing what longitudinal line on its surface is allowed to go to the inner edge of the coil. For instance, a color stripe along the length of the hose simply cannot always be on the outside of the coil, because e.g. 10 times around the outside of the coil is considerably farther than 10 times around the inside.

The only linear objects that wouldn't tend to twist when coiled would be those with no thickness, or those with highly elastic surfaces which would let two parts be diametrically opposite each other in one shape (straight) and then one lag drastically behind the other when in a coil-- e.g. something stretchy like a rubber band or a wet noodle.

Just what difference over- or under-twisting a string might make to the sound or the playability-- who knows? Maybe these would be all the better with a few _extra_ twists in the counter-clockwise direction.

By the way, in my earlier post when I said the tuner drums turn counter-clockwise to tighten the string, I should also have said that this is as seen looking into the peg box from the bass side of the bass; and c-cw for the string twist similarly is as seen looking up the string from tailpiece to scroll.

[sjd007]

He he

All good fun, but I think you are over-thinking this a little.

If you drape a DB string over your finger it will drape, not twist, it just stretches the long side a little. Same around the tuning drum.

When I fit a DB string I lay it out and make sure no twists after fitting into tailpiece, then use drum to wind (so as not to induce twisting). When a little tension is on the string re-check to make sure no twisting force at ball end, then tighten fully. If I did the first bit properly then there is no twist induced by tightening the tuning drum.

Peace!

[xwtb]

Over-thinking it? Yeah, probably-- I have that tendency. But there are some practical implications of all that cogitation, relevant to the OP's original concerns. First, to minimize any change to the string's original internal relationships, the TP end should so far as possible be allowed to rotate as you wind-- if it shows any tendency to do so. I'd let the drum take up the first three or four wraps before even putting the (ball) end in the TP, and even then let increasing tension pull it into the slot rather than snugging it in initially. (Ironically, "holding the ball vertically" would actually help the string twist, rather than prevent it.)

Second, if you suspect that your string has gotten adversely twisted, counter-clockwise is the way to turn it to relieve this condition.

I'm not persuaded by your "drape" test , but I suspect we've taken the topic about as far as it can usefully go.

Thanks for holding down the other end of the see-saw. And Peace back at ya.