Sound vs. Playability

[Bobby King]

I've just finished a weekend of gigs playing on the set of Eudoxa strings that I got for Christmas. In a nutshell, I loved how they sounded, but found them very difficult to play. I am likely to put my Spirocores back on soon. I have a general question to ask of all of you: What do you prioritize in terms of strings and setup (if you have to choose); is it what gives you the best sound, or what enables you to play your best?

[flipper_gv]

setup: playability

strings (tension, roughness, etc.): sound

sound must never be compromised IMO and you can get used to the feel of some strings.

[pacojas]

most all new strings are sticky until they finish stretching, imo.

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by Bobby King

I've just finished a weekend of gigs playing on the set of Eudoxa strings that I got for Christmas. In a nutshell, I loved how they sounded, but found them very difficult to play. I am likely to put my Spirocores back on soon. I have a general question to ask of all of you: What do you prioritize in terms of strings and setup (if you have to choose); is it what gives you the best sound, or what enables you to play your best?

When I was younger I came down rigidly on the side of tone but now playability has to come first. Having the best-sounding instrument in the world is immaterial if you can't execute the music that's in your head.

The degrees of 'tone' are much smaller than we perceive them to be anyway.

Having said that, the right instrument with the right setup can make all the difference and allow you to eat your cake and have it too.

[Uncletoad]

Well to me there's not a huge amount wrong with the sound of Spirocores in the grand scheme of things. The nuances of gut and gut core strings may give them a nod for tone in many circumstances but if you show up to a gig with a broken in set of spirocores on your bass nobody is gonna throw you out cause you sound bad.

So if you sound really good and play like shite you probably won't get the gig or keep it. But if you play great and sound just "OK" my guess is you keep working---especially if "OK" is a set of Spirocore Mitts the most popular pizz string in all of double bassdom.

[Michael Case]

I fall on the side of playability myself. I think when a string compromises your playing the tone isn't worth it. I used to have Velvet Anima strings onmy bass a few years back. Every gig I played my pizz fingers would get kind of stuck to the strings. I know it wasn't rosin, because I would clean the rosin off thoroughly when practicing, it was a weird reaction between my skin and the copper windings. I thought Obligato strings were nice but too floppy and I couldn't dig in on 'em. I'm now back to a full Spiro set, after a Spiro/Oliv combo. I really believe that the differences in tone are minuscule for the most part.

[Bobby King]

I don't think the Spiros sound bad at all. There are definitely things that I prefer about the gut sound, but I am coming to the conclusion that there is a substantially greater playabililty factor with the Spirocores, for me anyway.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Bobby King

I don't think the Spiros sound bad at all. There are definitely things that I prefer about the gut sound, but I am coming to the conclusion that there is a substantially greater playabililty factor with the Spirocores, for me anyway.

Me too.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Michael Case

I used to have Velvet Anima strings onmy bass a few years back. Every gig I played my pizz fingers would get kind of stuck to the strings.

That and the turning your hands black thing both put me off of those too.

[Michael Case]

Usually halfway through the second set of a gig it would start and even though most didn't notice it I always felt things crash just a bit when it would happen.

I think I'm gonna take my old teacher Sean Smith's concept "when you find a string that works, don't change it." He uses Spiros always and is an awesome player.

[Michael Case]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Me too.

Agreed! I played with a community orchestra last night for the first time and was pleased with the Spiros in that setting.

I think I'll bookmark this thread.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Sound.

If they hurt my hands, I'll get the best sounding string that doesn't. I don't consider a string "playable" if it doesn't get the sound I'm after. IME, I like the sound of a smooth string with a fair amount of tension - when they're putting out too much of something, I find it easier to back off of them than what happens in the opposite scenario (where they feel great and allow you to fly, but give up the ghost in high volume/intensity situations). As always, YMMV, YMWCB, and HMWWAWCIAWCCW?

[Michael Case]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Sound.

If they hurt my hands, I'll get the best sounding string that doesn't. I don't consider a string "playable" if it doesn't get the sound I'm after. IME, I like the sound of a smooth string with a fair amount of tension - when they're putting out too much of something, I find it easier to back off of them than what happens in the opposite scenario (where they feel great and allow you to fly, but give up the ghost in high volume/intensity situations). As always, YMMV, YMWCB, and HMWWAWCIAWCCW?

This for me is EXACTLY what makes Spiros my go to string. I really dig the smoothness, tension, AND sound. Really it boils down to Spiros being the perfect string for my needs/wants. I think the biggest problem I have is the Strings forum, but I can't stay away.

[doberman]

When I can I try to play acoustic, and if I can't then I use a microphone only, so that necessitates being able to create a good strong sound, otherwise I would never be heard. I have my bass set up to support this, and for me, I like the way the bass responds. It's a give and take, and definitely a personal thing, I don't actually like basses that feel like minimal effort is what the set up is for because I'm very used to my physical approach on my own instrument. I don't see anything wrong with low action or whatever amplification is necessary for other people, some days I feel like my life would be a lot easier if I relied more on amps and super easy playability...

[Michael Case]

Originally Posted by doberman

When I can I try to play acoustic, and if I can't then I use a microphone only, so that necessitates being able to create a good strong sound, otherwise I would never be heard. I have my bass set up to support this, and for me, I like the way the bass responds. It's a give and take, and definitely a personal thing, I don't actually like basses that feel like minimal effort is what the set up is for because I'm very used to my physical approach on my own instrument. I don't see anything wrong with low action or whatever amplification is necessary for other people, some days I feel like my life would be a lot easier if I relied more on amps and super easy playability...

This isn't really where this conversation was going. The topic has more to do with strings that are a P.I.T.A. to work with. Strings that are too low tension or cause weird chemical reactions with your skin and make your fingers stick to the strings. I personally like Spirocores, because they offer MORE resistance than gut or gut like strings. In terms of string height, I don't like strings too low either and have my Spiros at a respectable height to get a sound I like.

I stopped trying to go amp free after years of playing in noisy NYC venues and feeling like I was working construction. It just makes life easier to adjust to working with an amp IMHO.

[doberman]

You're right I guess I was thinking mostly of just set up rather than strings, though now that you say that, that was really obvious that my post was a bit off topic! I use animas and really like them, I like high string height too, though could see why some wouldn't like them.

[Michael Case]

Yeah the Animas weren't a good match for me. The copper winding did that sticky finger thing I mentioned earlier. Plus the arco sound was not working for me. Spiros for me are all around and sound awesome, for me/now at least.

[Mark Perna]

These questions are always asked in a vacuum in an "either-or" sense. Great sound is useless if the bass is so hard to play you can't play in time. Wailing away is useless if you sound like poop. The reality is ALWAYS a compromise.

Me, I want the best sound I can get while still being able to play what I want to play and there is a certain minimum subjective standard for both. I'll adjust the bass to make it more playable but never past my subjective minimum standard for sound and I'll adjust it for sound but never past my subjective minimum standard for playability. There is always a point where the two meet where both are least objectionable. Case in point: when I bought my back up bass ('74 Juzek), it was set up with Spiros and a fairly high string height. It sounded AMAZING. It was what sold me on the bass. The problem was I couldn't play it on a gig without more than occasionally bobbling the time. I had to lower the string height. While it still sounds great, it didn't sound as great as it did but I could play it without bobbling the time. Believe me, NO ONE other than me noticed the sound change. EVERYBODY noticed the lack of bobbling time.

For the past 10 months, I've been using gut which is, for me, the best of both worlds. It is MUCH easier to play once you get used to the lower tension (coming from Spiros, it took me a while to learn to not overplay them) and I love the sound of it for jazz which is what I play 99% of the time. I do miss Spiros when I play pop/funk/latin gigs because they sit in a dense mix better but I haven't missed them at all playing jazz.

Interestingly and somewhat counter intuitively, I run a fairly low string height with gut not because it makes it more playable (although it does) but because I get a more defined tone. Too low and the bass chokes out and too high and the sound gets puffy and fat but somewhat undefined but there is a certain point where the bass doesn't choke and the sound is defined and punchy. In other words, I get a better sound (or, at least, the sound I want to have) where the bass is easiest to play which is exactly the opposite problem I had when I played Spiros.

mark

[T-Bal]

I think we're actually talking about three different things here - the sound of the string, playability as it relates to the feel of the string, and setup. I'm going to leave setup out of the discussion, because it's the one part you do have some control over. A string is going to sound how it sounds and feel how it feels, albeit with some variance depending on the setup.

I know exactly what you mean with the eudoxa. It sounds great, but doesn't feel so good. For me, the tradeoff wasn't worth it, especially in a mixed set with other smooth polished windings. The friction caused by that silver wrap is a serious handicap for both hands. My LH would get stuck in the middle of a slide and not reach the note. My RH wouldn't release the string at the right time, and the rhythm would suffer. Maybe it can be polished with fine steel wool, but I never thought to try it until after I had moved on to other strings.

As another example, I've been using an Obligato G for a while now, and this was a choice governed by feel as much as sound, since it's thicker and more supple than similar sounding steel core strings. I find that I can pull it hard without sounding strident, whereas the thinner, stiffer G strings felt and sounded too pingy (even the dark ones). Fortunately, the Obli G is also giving me a nice thump, fundamental and sustain.

As always, TEHO, DSFSF, etc.

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

Tom, really dig your MySpace stuff-especially the tasty solo on Prelude to a Kiss.
Don't change nuttin 'cause whatever you got is workin' for you.