Spiro question(s)

Meddle771 · #1 10-11-2010, 12:37 PM

So ive come to the conclusion that ive read way too many threads talking about how sweet spirocores are, and plan on getting them next time i buy strings.

i currently play and practice about 70/30 arco/pizz. A good sound/feel arco is important, but a good pizz sound is even more important, despite me playing more arco... i currently play the TX(heavy) gauge of Corelli 370's. But they are way too small for the big sound i want.

i think ive pretty much settled on mittels, but am still pondering a stark E. Definitely not weichs.

Are some spiros of the same set easier to bow then others? Like say im playing a Stark E, and mittel A/D/G, which one is the most problematic when it comes to bowing? i know a lot of it depends on bow technique, but just in general.

Does anybody play E/A/D spiro with a different G, or E/A spiro with different D/G for better bow response? What would match the spiros well?

What have you guys found to be a good rosin for spiros? i think i remember reading some thread where spiros are ultra picky when it comes to rosin....?

Marcus Johnson · #2 10-11-2010, 12:52 PM

I did Spiros for awhile with Oliv G. It worked out very well. Others have suggested that a Superflexible on top works well. I've also used full sets of Spiros, no probs. The best combo for me was Mittel E, Weich on all others. It sounded big on my bass.

I like Carlsson rosin for Spiros... Nyman's might be good as well. Pop's has always been too gooey for me.

Uncletoad · #3 10-11-2010, 04:24 PM

Arco with Spiro Mitts and Starks is challenging although I like the sound I get from mine. Not my first choice of arco strings however.

Have you tried Belcanto yet?

Mixing Belcanto G/D/A on top of a Spiro Mittel E gives you great arco and very nice pizz.

You may also dig a full set of Permanents. Nice crossover string with lots of arco power, darker than spiros.

Heavy is not always better when it comes to strings. There is a limit to what any given bass can do. Good setup is crucial. There is a point where getting heavier strings stops delivering more sound and starts to choke the bass.

My bass wears Spiro mittels and a Stark E at the moment and it's pretty huge sounding. Setup differently it didn't like the Stark E as much. Unfortunately you just have to try stuff to see what you like.

Rosin depends on the player, the string and the environment. I use Oak Soft year round on my spiros and like it fine. I also have liked Pops on them. I thought carlsons and nymans didn't grab enough for Spiro Mittels but some people find them just fine. My former teacher used Carlsons on Spiro Weichs and the lighter Corellis and it worked fine for him.

Gonna have to just try a bunch of stuff and see what you like best.

kscbass · #4 10-11-2010, 05:49 PM

My local luthier who is also a pro classical player switched recently to a full set of Spiro Mittels, he says he has no problem bowing them. Besides having a high level with the bow people don't take in account that the average classical player uses a $4000 bow, that bow will definitely help . You can also use the right hair bow and rosin for Spiros.

TroyK · #5 10-11-2010, 06:28 PM

If you are convinced that you want Start Mittels, I wouldn't order a Stark E to start with. See how the matched set treats you first. Lots of people play them as Herr Thomastik intended. If you feel like the E is weak, then you can adjust. Same with the G. I just got back from helping a friend shop for basses and how a set of strings sound bass to bass is very unique. I wouldn't anticipate adjustments in advance.

Pops and Soft Oak for me too. The Swedish rosins produce a nice, sweet sound, but they're not as grabby and for Smittels or to compensate for my lack of touch with the bow, I need the extra help. Obviously you have more arco experience than me, but that's my input.

Meddle771 · #6 10-11-2010, 09:46 PM

Thanks for the responses.

i think ill just be starting with a full set of mittels and my usual bow/rosin, then if i have too many problems with that ill start changing things around. The one thing i am worried about is bowing the G string especially in higher registers. Hopefully ill finish Simandl 2 and his 30 etudes before getting them.

The only strings ive played are some no name Labella set that i got for 40$, light gauge Corelli 370, and heavy gauge Corelli 370. And spiros for a couple minutes on a friends bass. After hearing that nice carved bass just for a minute and feeling the spiros under my fingers, i need that pizz sound no matter what.

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #7 10-11-2010, 10:44 PM

Starting with a set of Mittels is a good thing. Just remember to move the bow slow. Whatever you do, grab a Stark E, to have it in your pocket if for no other reason. Having a sledgehammer in your pocket is always useful.

William Hoffman · #8 10-12-2010, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meddle771

So ive come to the conclusion that ive read way too many threads talking about how sweet spirocores are, and plan on getting them next time i buy strings.

i currently play and practice about 70/30 arco/pizz. A good sound/feel arco is important, but a good pizz sound is even more important, despite me playing more arco... i currently play the TX(heavy) gauge of Corelli 370's. But they are way too small for the big sound i want.

i think ive pretty much settled on mittels, but am still pondering a stark E. Definitely not weichs.

Are some spiros of the same set easier to bow then others? Like say im playing a Stark E, and mittel A/D/G, which one is the most problematic when it comes to bowing? i know a lot of it depends on bow technique, but just in general.

Does anybody play E/A/D spiro with a different G, or E/A spiro with different D/G for better bow response? What would match the spiros well?

What have you guys found to be a good rosin for spiros? i think i remember reading some thread where spiros are ultra picky when it comes to rosin....?

i think you got some good advice here. start out with the full set of Mittels and then adjust.

my own experience was that the bass i put the set of Mittels on about a year ago really needs some tension to get it going. so i experimented with a Stark E about 8 months ago and it made the bass sing. the Stark E is wonderful for arco, btw. (the Mittel E was also good, and keep in mind your bass might not like the Stark E's tension, depending on your mix.)

the one other string i later took off was the Mittel G. just too twangy and metallic sounding, it didn't fit or just didn't sound right to me. so i pulled an old Belcanto G out of the drawer and it really clicked with the bass and the other strings (Stark E and Mittel A and D). now the tension balance is very good on that bass. the Belcanto G has a tiny bit less tension than the Mittel G, which worked out well, and it is also beautiful under the bow, as i'm sure you know. Oliv G is also very nice for pizz and arco.

the Mittel D & A are still on there from the full set and the whole mix is well balanced and even.

Uncletoad · #9 10-12-2010, 06:15 AM

That's a good mix, Stark E, Mittel A, D, Belcanto G. It's a little weird under the bow, not near as even as a straight Mittel set though.

I think the Mittel E starts faster and requires less speed and pressure than the Stark E. Once it gets going though if your bass likes it the Stark E is a mother.

Stark E to Belcanto G and back under the bow is very weird. The touch required for the two is pretty far apart. One can adjust though.

I still tend to prefer Spiros across the bass. Less accommodation to deal with.

William Hoffman · #10 10-12-2010, 07:01 AM

you're right Phil. when i go to start to bow a note on the Belcanto G, i am conscious of the cross-shift and have to start the note more gently. but it's something i've gotten used to, not a big deal, especially from the D or A string to the G. from the Stark E to the BC G is also ok, but i agree the Belcanto G is not competitive volume-wise.

the tension balance was actually improved for me with this mix. the Belcanto G has just a few lbs less tension than the Mittel G, but it made a difference.

Uncletoad · #11 10-12-2010, 08:56 AM

Yea, the straight Mittel set seems heavier on the G string and lighter on the E string. Although the numbers don't bear that out. The Stark E pulls the neck much harder and makes the A/D/G seem lower tension as a result. I have to drop my string height when I do that or I can't play the damn thing....which exaggerates the Mittel G string's tendency to buzz.

I love the Belcanto G string...might try that one again. I end up back with the Mittel all the time because after it's broken in (read well over a year) it looses it's boing and buzz and still retains that long note and it's cutting ability in an upper midrange spot missing from most other steel strings.

drurb · #12 10-12-2010, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I end up back with the Mittel all the time because after it's broken in (read well over a year) it looses it's boing and buzz and still retains that long note and it's cutting ability in an upper midrange spot missing from most other steel strings.

+1. My Spiro Mitts are pretty much at that point now. After being really unhappy with the G, now I wouldn't change a thing (maybe I adapted?). I've also recently discovered via concentrated practice with the stick o' pain, that after a short period of adjustment, the arco performance of Spiro Mitts is much better than I originally thought. Phil has been saying that all along.

Meddle771 · #13 10-12-2010, 01:34 PM

How does the Oliv G compare in bow response and pizz sustain, to the mittel G?

I'm reluctant to the Belcanto G

foilracer · #14 10-12-2010, 01:50 PM

I say "buy 'em and become "the expert"! Today, i think each string...(that is) ...each individual string is a little different from the next string (tension, brand, etc) on each different bass... i have been bowing spiro weich....like you 70arco/30 pizz...great for jazz pizz and work for arco....but more important..try the strings you are thinking about sooner, rather than later. Your education will cost some $$ but you will become "the expert" and that is what is most important..good luck.

TroyK · #15 10-12-2010, 03:04 PM

There is no reasonable comparison between OLIV G and Spriocore G. They are like Marcus Johnson and sane people. OLIV is gut wrapped in steel, bows easily and lovely, big bouncy balls-o-pizz, expensive, fragile, tuning stability effected by humidity and temp and short to medium life span. Spirocores are all steel, lots of overtones, stable tuning, inexpensive, will last forever, but you'll have to work harder with the bow and it doesn't sound naturally like Sam Jones or Mingus, but under the right hands, can be the most usable in all situations strings there are.

I'm telling you, I wasted a lot of time and money on this. You don't know what's going to happen with your bass. Start with a set, give them time to settle. Practice getting the sound you want. Have a luthier make little soundpost adjustments if you're not hearing quite what you think you should, then start looking for the secret sauce of string combination if you must. I'm not saying you won't, but you might not. A lot of people do just fine with a pack of Spirocores every 5 years. I am saying that there's no way you're going to get it right on speculation of what you think will happen when you string that bass up.

Greg Clinkingbeard · #16 10-12-2010, 04:40 PM

Spirocores don't sound good on every bass. NO string does. I have tried lots of strings on my 'B' bass (old german ply) and it absolutely kills with mittels. Weichs are decent but very twangy, especially the G. With mittels it has depth and power, even moreso than with Animas. Whoodathunk that? The G is only slightly irritating.

I used mittels E, A, D for most of the past year on my old flatback and while the pizz was very nice, arco was difficult. The G has been an Olive for several months. I tried the Mitt G for a minute last month and hated it. On this bass, the Olive is incredible.

Since recently switching to EP weichs I have been happy. They have enough brightness and punch for pizz, are easy to bow and match the Olive nicely. I find that it requires just a bit less bow pressure than the EP's.

IMO, every double bassist doing pizz should try mittels because they are the benchmark. IF they are happy with the way their bass responds both pizz and arco, they should be happy they found their string.
My string drawer is a virtual rat's nest; evidence of a journey most of us must take.

Marcus Johnson · #17 10-12-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyK

There is no reasonable comparison between OLIV G and Spriocore G. They are like Marcus Johnson and sane people.

LOL. My man.

It's true. Both are great, and the bottom line. as always. is that it makes absolutely no difference to the average listener. If your hands and ears like it, and your budget allows it, that's your string.

The Oliv G stole my heart. It was just wonderful. When it broke, I died a little.

If I had to soldier on and do everything on one set of Spiros for the rest of my life, I could do it on the bass I own right now.

William Hoffman · #18 10-12-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Yea, the straight Mittel set seems heavier on the G string and lighter on the E string. Although the numbers don't bear that out...

I love the Belcanto G string...might try that one again.

you're incredible, Toad. that's brilliant (actually that's exactly where my thought process has been going over the years): the full Mittel set is high-tension on the G string and less so on the E string. btw, that's very useful information. it explains (at least to me) why i wanted a Stark E and prefer the Belcanto G (which is slightly less tension, much more bowable than the Spiro Mittel G's banjo twang).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyK

There is no reasonable comparison between OLIV G and Spriocore G. They are like Marcus Johnson and sane people.

I'm telling you, I wasted a lot of time and money on this. You don't know what's going to happen with your bass. Start with a set, give them time to settle. Practice getting the sound you want. ...there's no way you're going to get it right on speculation of what you think will happen when you string that bass up.

but Troy, why not compare them? Marcus and other people are together in this world...

seriously, though, you are right on about the simple fact that every bass is different. my bass seems to like a Stark E with Mittel A and D and a Belcanto G. this i learned by an extensive trip of trial-and-error, and i don't think the trip is over yet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by clink

Spirocores don't sound good on every bass. NO string does. I have tried lots of strings on my 'B' bass (old german ply) and it absolutely kills with mittels. Weichs are decent but very twangy, especially the G. With mittels it has depth and power, even moreso than with Animas. Whoodathunk that? The G is only slightly irritating.

exactly. agree. no generalizations possible, really.

Marcus Johnson · #19 10-12-2010, 05:16 PM

I can't generalize about strings too much. I have a couple of pics of the strings that have been on my bass, all in one big wad. It's like that Guinness World Record Yarn Ball. Almost all of them have sounded at least "very good" on my bass. BTW... looking for a particular string? I might have it.....

That said.... in stringing up basses of varying quality for friends and students over the years, Spiro Mittels have made more of them better, more usable on a daily basis, to my ears, than any other string.

YMCA, IHOP, NORML, etc.

fdeck · #20 10-12-2010, 05:25 PM

It still comes down to the individual instrument, player, etc. I found that Spiro Mitts didn't sound any better than Obligato's, were much more difficult to bow, and hurt my hands when I played pizz. But trying them didn't set me back too much, and now I'm glad to have them as spares.

At the same time, Mitts were just the thing for my ply. Horses for courses.