Spiro Weichs Don’t Get No Respect

[Andy Allen]

I recently bought an Azola EUB to use in the Latin Band I play with regularly. After some research and help from the TB-EUB forum members and Jill & Steve Azola, I learned that many Latin players use Spiro Weichs (or even detuned Spiro solos) on their EUBs. But why on earth use Spiro Weichs, particularly for that thick, but percussive, Latin sound?

Time for me to think a bit more objectively about them – they don’t seem to get much respect around here in the TB strings forum. Criticisms are that they sound thin and nasal, are no good under the bow, long on sustain & short on tone, feel floppy, etc. But wait a minute. If I think about what I consider to be good contemporary Jazz bass sound, I come up with two players who’s sound I particularly like.

One is Tom Warrington, a very melodic and lyrical player who sounds wonderful recorded and equally great live, with a full tone and good, clear articulation. I had always thought that he used Spiro Mittels, but when speaking to him the other night (I’m lucky to get to see him regularly, as he lives in L.A.) I found out that he uses weichs. Thin sound, huh?

Another sound that I like is Brian Bromberg’s – quite different from Tom’s, and with a very different playing style, but equally fat and full range. Big growl too. Guess what, he uses weichs. And while it might be easy to attribute Brian’s sound to an old antique bass, Tom is using a ‘60s German bass. Hmmm.

And poor for arco? Well my old teacher did not profess to be an orchestral player, but he sounded great playing jazz-arco on the weichs he used. And my present teacher, Putter Smith, is a monster player both pizz and arco, and he uses weichs, albeit with a mittel E.

Of course I’m sure all these guys would sound great on a 2x4 and a bit of old string...it’s all in their hands and their musical sensibility, but they could use any strings they wanted and weichs don’t seem to be hurting their sound or technique.

And now I come to think of it, the two basses I particularly liked on my new-bass-hunt had Spiro weichs on them – an old German bass I mentioned in this thread and an old French bass at World of Strings in Long Beach that was just outside my price range and could not be bargained down. I was not accustomed to the weichs’ tension and thickness (or lack of), but certainly liked the sound on those basses.

So I guess I’ll be trying some Spiro Weichs on the EUB...does this make me a born-again Weich-er?

Andy

[Jake]

Christian McBride used to use the Spirocore Weich's, too.

[rprowse]

Tom Warrington. If I'm not mistaken, I saw him at a Rodger Fox workshop in Palmerston North, New Zealand, where he said that you can't bow Weichs (roughly 5 years ago). I objected because I have bowed them for many years. He basically said that I was talking rubbish. I felt put down. Is this the same guy?
ps. He played out of tune (to my ears)... perhaps he should've spent more time with the bow.
Richard from NZ

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by airbass

I recently bought an Azola EUB to use in the Latin Band I play with regularly. After some research and help from the TB-EUB forum members and Jill & Steve Azola, I learned that many Latin players use Spiro Weichs (or even detuned Spiro solos) on their EUBs. But why on earth use Spiro Weichs, particularly for that thick, but percussive, Latin sound?

Almost all salsa Baby Bass players I can think of use Spirocore Solos.
Those strings on the Baby Bass are THE salsa bass sound.

[jimclark68]

Weichs sure bow easier than Mittels, at least with my limited ability. Especially once they've got a few miles on them. I also dig that contemporary Weich/lighter string sound. Despite that, I never can seem to make them work for me - even trying to take into account my ordinary bass, they always feel flabby and punchless, and I always end up going back to Mittels.

[gomez hacienda]

Originally Posted by airbass

So I guess I’ll be trying some Spiro Weichs on the EUB...does this make me a born-again Weich-er?

Andy

Andy, I have weichs on both my UB & EUB. I started to get curious about them after hearing Brian Bromberg, even tho my bass isn't 300yrs old. I'm a definite Weich fan.

They give my Upton a very mature sound, and have that great sustain and growl on the NS CR4. No slab sound here. Once they play-in, they're great. The quality of the string also helped my decision. The 370TXs I used to have on the CR4 had more than one flaw in the windings, and buzzed like all heck. I thought there were screws loose until I put the Weichs on.

[martinc]

Been using Weichs (pizz) for years on my plywoods. Sometimes strayed for a while but I always seem to come back to them.
I always found a substitute (gut or synthetic) for the G but the Weichs generally feel good to me, have just the right amount of tension, have a solid sound after they break in and last a long time.
Weichs are also one of the few strings I have used that sound good on all of my basses. There may be another string that might have a bit of an edge but the Weichs will always do the job.

[Karl]

The softer the string, the harder it is to get a constantly good sound out of them. Mittels or Starks you'll just have pluck hard enough and they'll make a good bass sound full and warm.

Not so with weichs (or jazzers or superflexibles etc.). If you're really good you can get a much more colourful tone out of them, but its harder. The expression range is greater, from a very soft tone to a really brutally peaky tone everything is possible with soft strings, but its not easy to stay in the middle.
So IMO, weichs are certainly not bad, but it demands a lot of training constantly making them sound like you want. They also bring more of the sound of your bass to the audience, so the difference between weichs on a superb bass and on a bad bass is much greater than the difference of starks on a superb bass and on a bad bass.

For me, the weichs were a bit too nervous to handle and the mittels left me not enough room with sounds, so I go with superflexibles now and am very pleased so far.

[JAS]

I have tried just about every string there is except for a few of the Velvet strings and some gut and I keep coming back to the Weichs because I know I can count on them. They are not perfect, but I know I can get a good sound with them in just about any situation. The G sometimes feels thin to me, but once I get warmed up on a gig, they feel fine and I forget about the thin feel.

To me, they are just a no hastle string.

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by JAS

To me, they are just a no hastle string.

I agree; I think they sound great, much rounder than mittels actually (if you raise the action enough to get some resistance from them). And once they're broken in, they bow pretty well (much better than the stiffer mittels, IMO)--Renaud Garcia-Fons bows the heck out of them, and Chris Fitzgerald said Sid King told him that he won his Louisville Symphony audition with weichs on his bass. It so often comes down to feel, though; I just play too hard for the weichs, and the skinny strings wilt under my fingers and don't translate the impulse into sound as well as something like Dominants do.

I have to say that whenever I play a bass with weichs on them, though, I chuckle with pleasure at how easy they are to play and I remember how fun it is to have a string that plays so effortlessly. They make me feel guilty, but I do sometimes envy those weich-using bassists with no such hang-ups!

PS Warrington came to Bloomington two years ago and borrowed a student's bass with Animas on it. These are about as much the opposite of weichs of any string short of guts (or Garbos), and he commented on the fact--but he played the snot out of the bass with no noticeable decrease in technical facility. I find his playing to be very impressive.

[Clay_Bass]

I play a wiech E. I couldnt play an all steel bass though. My style just doesnt work with steel.

[bassdogEmer]

Players who use and endorse Weichs:
Ray Brown (RIP)
Christian McBride
Gary Peacock
Brian Bromberg
Marco Panascia
and about a million others

I have always loved them AND I have found on ALL my basses- Kay,Hungarian and Juzek that once they are broken in you can a really thumpy gut sound out of them depending on your left hand technique. As well - they bow very nice and have a nice easy tension making them an easy string to mix.
my set up is Weichs with a Eudoxa G. opinion yes - but I think most would agree.