Spiro Weichs vs Mediums - core sound

[Jason Sypher]

I've got these weich's on my new bass which I've never tried before. They're easy to play but there is a thinness, real or imagined, that I feel about the core of their sound. Does anyone have this experience? Do the Mediums possess a noticeable increased fundamental or is it all marketing hockus pocus? I'm ready to start tweaking the new set up and getting it more to my liking.

[Don Higdon]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

I've got these weich's on my new bass which I've never tried before. They're easy to play but there is a thinness, real or imagined, that I feel about the core of their sound. [1] Does anyone have this experience? Do the Mediums possess a noticeable increased fundamental [2] or is it all marketing hockus pocus? I'm ready to start tweaking the new set up and getting it more to my liking.

1 Yes.
2 No.
Get the reds.

[Uncletoad]

Weichs have always seems slightly less punchy and fat on my basses than reds. They are much easier on the stick but not enough to matter with the stick handle you have.

I think sometimes with the right bass Weichs can be warmer, more woody and less stringy but then again on another bass they can have significantly less volume and power with a ton more buzz.

In the land of spirocores I'm constantly going back to Mittels as my gold standard. The right amount of tension volume and buzz. G strings are always in flux. Right now the Oliv G in on top of an otherwise Red set and I'm very happy that way.

[Treyzer]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

In the land of spirocores I'm constantly going back to Mittels as my gold standard. The right amount of tension volume and buzz. G strings are always in flux. Right now the Oliv G in on top of an otherwise Red set and I'm very happy that way.

I've been using an Olive G for about the past 6 months. It has been the best combination I've ever tried. I'm using Wiechs on the D & A and a Mittel on the E. The E growls and is big. The A & D cut through the mix nicely and The G is very warm with a singing quality up in thumb. How is the Olive G working out for you Phil?

[Eric Hochberg]

I think it depends on your bass how they'll sound. On my bright bass weichs are bright and thin sounding, on my dark bass, they are darker and fuller (go figure). Mediums have more gravitas and are more tiring for me to play. The G's of both sets are too zingy and thin feeling for me so I've been using Evah Weich, Obligato, or plain gut. Olive sounded nice at home on the dark bass, just didn't like the feel in thumb position for pizz and it seemed to get lost in the mix with a band.

Again, I think your bass will decide which you like better...

[Jason Sypher]

This bass must be dark because the Spiros sound fine across all four strings, not too bright. I would love to be a no-nonsense Spiro guy that throws on a set every few years and spends the rest of my time thinking about music. The Weichs are ok, just a tad thin sounding in the mids....

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

This bass must be dark because the Spiros sound fine across all four strings, not too bright. I would love to be a no-nonsense Spiro guy that throws on a set every few years and spends the rest of my time thinking about music. The Weichs are ok, just a tad thin sounding in the mids....

So use Red Spiros and don't think about it anymore.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by DONOSAUR

1 Yes.
2 No.
Get the reds.

+1

John Goldsby sounds great on weichs. Then again, I think he sounds great on the mittles and Dominants, too, maybe even moreso. The thing about the weichs, IME, is that there are certain situations where I want the sonic effect of a fist to the face in order to cut through or even to just sit correctly in the mix live. The weichs sound great, but can't go too far beyond a friendly love-tap in this regard.

[iiipopes]

Remember, there are two different mitts: 4/4 S42, and 3/4 3885. I believe Uncletoad and Chris are referring to the 3885. If your bass can handle it (as in, having a 42 inch scale or thereabouts so there is not too much of the main wrap going around any particular tuning gear, especially the E string, unless you have your E and A switched out, say, for an extension installation), you might try an S42 set, which is advertised as having the roughly the same overall set tension as the 3885, but in a longer scale. This means at 3/4 scale, the S42 mitts will have slightly less tension than the 3885 mitts, but definitely more than the weichs. Now, make no mistake: we're talking a very slight difference here; some may notice it; others may not, and the G string on the S42 may be too light, necessitating G string swaps back to the 3885 mitt G string, or another brand and model, as Uncletoad and others do.

If your bass sounds great with all four strings, then 3885 red mitts, and possibly a trip to your luthier for a slight tweak to your setup, and you should be good to go.

[Jason Sypher]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

So use Red Spiros and don't think about it anymore.

Yeah, I'm gonna buy em.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by iiipopes

I believe Uncletoad and Chris are referring to the 3885. .....you might try an S42 set, which is advertised as having the roughly the same overall set tension as the 3885, but in a longer scale. This means at 3/4 scale, the S42 mitts will have slightly less tension than the 3885 mitts, but definitely more than the weichs.

Good point. I always buy S42 not the short scale set. Not a huge difference though.

[MIKMAN]

In each one of my three basses the mittels give a noticeably better sound than the Weich, in terms of volume and fundamentals. Following an old suggestion by Phil i put a stark E on my Paulus German bass, with magnificent results. I use S42 for the 7/8 Paulus and this is the proper set up for studio work. At least for me these are the default jazz strings!
Mike

[iiipopes]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Good point. I always buy S42 not the short scale set. Not a huge difference though.

Thanks. And it may be the reason the G string is twangy for you. Comparatively, it's really thin. With the 3885 mitt G, it has marginally more tension for the same string length, and so it might be a better match than anything else: gain the Spiro tone, lose the twang.

Now, remember, these numbers don't mean anything by themselves, but are just so comparisons may be drawn.
First, for comparison, the 3/4 3885 tension numbers reference from TI are:
Weich: G-60.6, D-61.7, A-63.9, E-66.1
Mitts: G-67.2, D-68.3, A-70.5, E-72.8

Next, doing the math, 4/4 S42 strings, when put on a 3/4 bass, have the following nominal tensions:
Mitts: G-61.4, D-65.5, A-69.6, E-69.6

(all using TI's reference of 110cm for 4/4 scale and 106cm for 3/4 scale)

So, Uncletoad, I would suggest at least trying the 3885 mitt G & D to go with the S42 mitt A & E if you want a more balanced set, and to get rid of the twangy G and unstable D from thumb position up, but don't want any more tension out of the A & E strings.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by iiipopes

So, Uncletoad, I would suggest at least trying the 3885 mitt G & D to go with the S42 mitt A & E if you want a more balanced set, and to get rid of the twangy G and unstable D from thumb position up, but don't want any more tension out of the A & E strings.

Worthy of an experiment.

[Phil Rowan]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

Yeah, I'm gonna buy em.

Stark E?

I had to switch my year and 3 or 4 month set of Spiro Mits/Stark E out for Evahs (kept the Stark though) because they were deemed to bright for orchestral use out at school (grad).. which, yes, I suppose they are, but I was bummed I wasn't able to fulfill my dream of keeping them on for at least 5 years without changing them. I miss the Spiro power.. even so, I'm glad I stuck with them because they really help you get your bow technique together (not to mention left hand intonation).

I remember playing an old Kay at school (undergrad) strung with really old Spiros.. sounded so good and dark I coulda swore I was playing on guts.

[E.P. Miller]

Originally Posted by Jason Sypher

They're easy to play but there is a thinness, real or imagined, that I feel about the core of their sound...

This thread prompted me to do a little experiment that has been on my mind for some time...

The Hybrid La Scala I acquired several months ago is wearing a set of Mitts. Judging by the amount of string wound to the peg, it may be the 4/4 set mentioned elsewhere in this thread.

I have an old set of Weichs that were relegated to the string drawer a couple of years ago when the Evah > Gut > Garbo > Gut experiments began on another bass.

I switched the Mitts with the Weichs on the La Scala hybrid to see what would happen. I used a Roland Edirol digital recorder to record both strings being played on the bass. Nothing scientific. While there was a marginal difference in what my ears heard, overall, there was practically no difference in the sound of the two strings recorded.

However, there is a remarkable difference in how I play these two strings.

I found that while I really dig into the Weichs (just as I do with Guts and Garbos), I'm not nearly as aggressive with the Mitts. I can get the Mitts to speak quickly and authoritatively with far less effort. In addition, my right hand technique stays in tact when I'm not struggling to get the string to speak in the way I wish for it to. For years I believed that playing a lower tension string would be a good way to avoid injury. Now I'm not so sure that's true…

[Jason Sypher]

I threw on my D and G Bel Cantos. A little louder but rather similar. I'm gonna play them for a few days and then try the Spiro med. I do think the Bel Cantos have a stronger sound, particularly bowed...they are also quicker.

[iiipopes]

A lot of guys are starting to use a Spiro E with the A D G Bel Cantos. When you look at the tension, you'll know why: the Bel Canto E is actually of less tension than the A.

[Jason Sypher]

Always love the Spiro E...a near-perfect string.

[Uncletoad]

I used a Belcanto D/G for awhile on top of Spiro Mittels and really liked the tone. They eventually got replaced with regular spiros as I found them slower and less pointed in the attack than I was wanting to drive the groove with.

Seemed like I was always a bit behind with them and had to pay attention to that to be where I needed to be in time. Spiro mitts back on and I forgot about all that junk and played.

Arco is sweeter with the BC for sure although I'm finding a similar vibe with just the Oliv G on top of the Mitts.