Spirocore G alternatives

trounsontime · #1 08-30-2012, 06:45 AM

Yes I know there have been a number of threads on a similar subject in the past but nothing particularly recently. I have been a long-time Evah Pirazzi (reg and weich) on my old ply bass but have recently upgraded to a fully carved instrument and it has spiros (meds) on it. The sound is glorious pizz and arco but I find myself wanting a bit more 'puff' on the G string. So before I go crazy and start experimenting like a mad professor I'd like some thoughts. I've thought through a few of the different options already, feel free to offer your observations.

Spiro G: The set is still fairly new, I've heard the Spiros need a fair bit of wearing in, so could I have my perfect mellow Spiro G in 6 months time? This is also obviously the cheapest option.

Anima/Garbo G: It seems every jazz bassist in Britain (and quite possibly in the US) inspired by messrs Grenadier and Street, end up going through a Spiros mixed with Velvets phase. I've heard also the merits of a matched set of Velvets, but they are expensive strings, aren't known for lasting a long time and potentially unbowable. I've played a bass with Spiros and an Anima G in the past and at the time, wasn't too keen on the Anima's feel though I remember the set sounded great.

Evah Pirazzi: As mentioned above, I have comprehensive experience of the EPs and liked them a lot on my old bass. I tried putting the EP (weich) G on my new bass when I first got it and I felt it had a good mellowing effect. I was also very aware however that the 6 month old EPs sounded pretty dull and indistinct compared to the Spiros. I tried putting the D on as well and it sounded pretty horrible imo. Anyone got any long term observations of EP and Spiros mixes?

Oliv: A while back I had an Oliv G with EP regulars and it matched very well. I have also played on other people's basses with Oliv G and Spiros. Again the longevity and expense is a consideration when considering the Oliv, plus the tuning stability drove me mad when I had one before.

Zyex: I recently played on my teacher's bass with Zyex on and had to admit to being impressed, I liked the low tension and snap to the front of the note, very Evah like but I hear they are cheaper and possibly last longer. I think they'd only been on for about a week at the time, he'd previously been a long-time Obligato user. Would it mix well with Spiros though?

Bel Canto: I have a played a bass the same model as mine when I visited the maker with Bel Cantos on. While it was overall a little bit too mellow for jazz pizz use and obviously glorious under the bow, the G string struck me as the most jazz pizz-friendly of the set. Would it make a credible match for Spirocores?

Flexocore: When I first played my bass it had Flexocores with a Spiro E. I'm not sure what variety of Flexocore they were, but they had red silks. They were set up with a low, growly action and sounded suprisingly good for jazz pizz. I chose to have a full set of Spirocore when asked by the maker, but I'm certainly intrigued by the excellent sound both pizz and under the bow.

Any other ones I left out please don't hesitate to mention as well as offering your observations on the mixes I've proposed.

drurb · #2 08-30-2012, 07:02 AM

Here's something recent.

Basically, my favorite G with a set of Spiro mitts is a Spiro mitt G.

KUNGfuSHERIFF · #3 08-30-2012, 07:39 AM

I notice you didn't mention the possibility of using a plain gut G. Any reason for that?

I've used Spiro Mittel, Spiro Weich (a bit twangy), Bel Canto (lovely arco response, but on the quiet side pizzed), Garbo (quite nice), Evah Mittel (too stiff) and Evah Weich (too quiet) over Spiro Mittel EAD. Like Drurb, I keep putting the Spiro Mittel G back on that particular bass, though my flatback wears gut D&G over dead-as-heck Spiro Mittel E&A and sound wonderful.

Give it time or, if you're feeling impatient, I have an older Spiro Mittel G that I was given along with several other used Spiros I recently purchased. It's yours for the cost of shipping, but I can't guarantee it will match the newer EAD in a pleasing way.

martinc · #4 08-30-2012, 07:48 AM

trounsontime:

Which Spiro's are you referring to? Orchestra (Mittel) or Weichs?

In my experience the best match (for pizz) when it comes to sound is the Oliv...but as you say it is expensive and the windings can come loose depending on the climate you live in.
The Eudoxa G also works well as a stand alone G. I have used one with Spiro orchs, weichs, Jazzers and Corelli 380's. More reliable than the Oliv's but slightly more trebly.

I agree with your assessment of the Bel Canto G. Sounds great with Spiro Weichs unless you add a Bel Canto D and then the whole set sounds dull. The increased tension of the D affects the whole mix on my ply Eberle.
I have never tried EP Weich....bought an EP regular G and did not like it. Not good with my K and K (at the time) pickup and the tension is quite high.
So...to try and prevent you from descending into "G string hell"...I would suggest a Zyex G medium. Good fundamental, easy to play, stable and well-made. It sounds fine with Spiro Weichs.
I am happy with it...and from my previous experiences with Spiro Orch G's, I think the Zyex medium G would be OK. They're relatively inexpensive so why not buy one and try it?
Keep us posted.

TroyK · #5 08-30-2012, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trounsontime

...
Flexocore: When I first played my bass it had Flexocores with a Spiro E. I'm not sure what variety of Flexocore they were, but they had red silks. They were set up with a low, growly action and sounded suprisingly good for jazz pizz. I chose to have a full set of Spirocore when asked by the maker, but I'm certainly intrigued by the excellent sound both pizz and under the bow...

Those were Flexocore '92s. Good strings, but I think the original Flexocore G is a better Spriocore Mittel match. Might put that on your list.

As for your 6 month old Evah, you might find that EPs are dull compared to Spirocores period. Very different string sonically and I would think putting them on a bass together would really highlight that.

trounsontime · #6 08-30-2012, 05:13 PM

Thanks for the advice,

Just for clarification it's a full set of spiro mittels I'm referring to. Perhaps the best way to avoid 'G string hell' is to stick with the matching G. It's good enough for Dave Holland, Marc Johnson and Gary Peacock after all. It's not that it sounds bad now but sometimes seems a bit too much like a fretless bass guitar and while overall I like the bright sound I'm sometimes wishing for a little more body. Perhaps that will come with time. I know Spiro Mittels can feel very stiff on some basses and I'm glad to say that's not the case on my bass. As for plain guts I don't really want to go there, the Oliv to me was enough of a liability on my old bass and the expense does bother me.
TroyK I understand what you're saying about the EPs with spirocores, they speak very different languages. I sort of liked the EP G on the spiro set but they didn't speak as a whole set.

Refonbass · #7 08-30-2012, 07:31 PM

I know you mentioned that you've tried the Oliv G, I have to say that on my bass Spiro mittel E,A,D with the Oliv G is absolutely to die for. I am in love with this particular setup.
That being said I've only had the Oliv on for a few months, I hope it lasts...

Tommy el Gato · #8 08-30-2012, 08:14 PM

A Pirastro Permanent works well as a Spiro alternative, especially if you're looking for something that's still going to be bright, but less edgy under the bow. I still prefer the spiro myself. Edgy is my thing.

If you're thinking your bass strung with spirocores sounds like a fretless electric, the most immediate next step is to try raising your string heights.

trounsontime · #9 09-11-2012, 11:46 AM

I've decided not to swap it for the time being. The sound is definitely mellowing out and I also think I'm starting to learn how to get the best out of the strings. I'm totally addicted to Spiros because they are the strings that keep on giving... I love the way that the harder you dig into them the richer and deeper the sound, unlike some other strings that seem to go shrill or simply crap out. Amazing.

iiipopes · #10 09-11-2012, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinc

trounsontime:

Which Spiro's are you referring to? Orchestra (Mittel) or Weichs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trounsontime

Just for clarification it's a full set of spiro mittels I'm referring to.

And to complicate matters, are you referring to the S42 4/4 sets in weich, mittel or stark, or the 3885 3/4 sets in weich or mittel?

So there are five different Spiros "orchestra" sets, before you get to solos, (2 sets, 3/4 and 4/4) "Red Mitchell" or 5ths sets (2) and then the fractional length sets for student basses.

All of them have slightly different tension characteristics, both in total tension and string-to-string within a set, so if you don't like the G string that comes with any particular set, the universe is wide open as to what to match up with which.

Eric Hochberg · #11 09-11-2012, 01:33 PM

spiroM E/A obligato D/G good matchup, used it for a while
spiroW E/A evahW D/G Sounding good on one of my basses.
spiroM E/A/D evahW G Sounding good on the other bass.

An excellent Chicago bassist swears by oflex G with spiroMs. I tried it, but found it a bit too stiff feeling on my bass. Sonically it wasn't bad, but the oflex was much brighter under the bow than the spiros, odd.

I've also used spiroW EAD with plain gut G. It works but the feel/sound is vastly different.

Better was spiroW EA, evahW D and plain gut.

I think each bass will respond in its own way to these combinations.

Jake deVilliers · #12 09-11-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

I think each bass will respond in its own way to these combinations.

"A few words of wisdom there."

iiipopes · #13 09-11-2012, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Hochberg

spiroM E/A obligato D/G good matchup, used it for a while
spiroW E/A evahW D/G Sounding good on one of my basses.
spiroM E/A/D evahW G Sounding good on the other bass.

An excellent Chicago bassist swears by oflex G with spiroMs. I tried it, but found it a bit too stiff feeling on my bass. Sonically it wasn't bad, but the oflex was much brighter under the bow than the spiros, odd.

I've also used spiroW EAD with plain gut G. It works but the feel/sound is vastly different.

Better was spiroW EA, evahW D and plain gut.

I think each bass will respond in its own way to these combinations.

S42 4/4 or 3885 3/4 for each of these sets as both the 4/4 and 3/4 come in weich & mittel?

Eric Hochberg · #14 09-11-2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiipopes

S42 4/4 or 3885 3/4 for each of these sets as both the 4/4 and 3/4 come in weich & mittel?

S42

trounsontime · #15 02-25-2013, 04:24 PM

Update:

I have Garbo D & G on top of the Spiro E & A for the time being. I got the Garbos cheap secondhand.

I'm going through a Larry Gales/Sam Jones phase so the old-school sound is very much up my street at the moment. But I'm not convinced of Spiros/Garbos as a set and the A string seems a bit choked. I could end up with Garbo A but it'd be an expensive road going for velvets. Am I going to end up with Gamut on the G? Am I going to try an Oliv or Eudoxa and put the Spiro D back on? It would improve clarity but last time I was gigging the bright sound of the Spiro G drove me to distraction so I won't be back on the full spiro set. I might even up with a set of Evah Pirazzi again sometime, you never know...

iiipopes · #16 02-25-2013, 08:26 PM

And now for something completely different: A D'Addario Prelude G string. Yes, D'Addario's "student" string. It is very similar in tension and feel to a S42 Spiro Mitt G string, but no twangy edge. It has a "round" tone and is inexpensive. A little more sustain than a Bel Canto G string, and tonally matches very well to a variety of sets. With a steel wrap instead of some of the more exotic metals, it doesn't feel out of place at all with a variety of strings which also have steel wraps. I've had one on top of Bels, Spiros and Jazzers, and it's going to be my G string of choice for the forseeable future.

damonsmith · #17 02-26-2013, 08:45 AM

Most strings, even the fancy ones are going to sound pretty dead next to Spiros. I have a Correli solo D on now, with Spiro solos and it is working fine.
I have always said Spiros + practice are the be combo.

swervy jervy · #18 02-26-2013, 10:27 PM

Zyex light. Nice warm string.

Marton · #19 02-26-2013, 10:45 PM

Obligato D an G with Spiros E and A worked fine one my bass.

trounsontime · #20 03-02-2013, 04:38 PM

The spiros/garbos sounded wonderful today when I was practicing. The weather has become a bit warmer recently and the bass is speaking a bit more together again. The E & A strings growl while the top strings speak articulately without the harshness of the full Spiro set. The tension seems to match reasonably well, possibly the Garbos are slackening the Spiros and the Spiros tightening the Garbos? Is that even possible? Either way there's a really great pliability about the strings but not so much as to feel out of control (I'm thinking of Innovation strings in that respect) I'll let you know how they are on the gig on Monday, I'm playing with a guy who's recorded with George Mraz and Peter Washington. Bit scared!