Spirocore orch. vs. Pirastro?

[Francois Blais]

The little plastic sleeve is a tone filter.
Slip it along the D string to it goes over the bridge.
The D string will then touch the bridge through the sleeve.

[fred pratt]

Hey, All. I was just browsing the old string threads as part of an inquiry into late 50's jazz tone --which I want to talk about in a second-- when I came across the plastic sleeve discussion.

I had my bass at David Gage's a few weeks ago and happened to ask David about the little plastic sleeve on the D string. His answer was that it goes in the pegbox. The D string has to travel over the G string tuning peg in order to reach its tuning peg at the top of the box. When tuning the D string, it can get hung up on the G string. Hence the little black sleeve. It sits on the part of the G string which is wrapped around the peg and then the D string can slide through it when you're tuning.

Now about that 50's sound....

I've been listening to a great record by New York bassist Neal Miner called The Real Neal. He gets what I think of as an old-school sound that reminds me of Paul Chambers by using Spiros on the E and A and gut strings on the D and G. The gut D and G make sense to me, but I was surprised that the Spiros would blend so well with them.

Last week I heard a recording by my teacher Joe Solomon which also had that old-school sound. He used Obligatos on that one, and so now I'm interested in them as well. I've been playing Superflexibles and I'm happy with them, but I really love that old sound. Maybe in the context of the quintet I've been playing in that kind of subtlety will get lost, but I still think about it.

[Phil Rowan]

I think Spiros on the E and A and guts on D and G is a great combo. The Spiros E and A give you (in my opinion) a gutty enough sound, especially if you've used guts on the E and A and know how to get that kind of sound. Right now I have Spiros E and A and Dominant D and G. The D and G take some getting used to because they're just a tad stiffer, but I've used them for some time and am used to it. I used guts for many years, starting in college (thanks to having studied with the great Dennis Irwin). With this set up I feel like I still get that sound, with just a little bit more fundamental than gut strings (at least the ones I was using) provide.
Just my 2 cents.

[martinc]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

I think Spiros on the E and A and guts on D and G is a great combo. The Spiros E and A give you (in my opinion) a gutty enough sound, especially if you've used guts on the E and A and know how to get that kind of sound. Right now I have Spiros E and A and Dominant D and G. The D and G take some getting used to because they're just a tad stiffer, but I've used them for some time and am used to it. I used guts for many years, starting in college (thanks to having studied with the great Dennis Irwin). With this set up I feel like I still get that sound, with just a little bit more fundamental than gut strings (at least the ones I was using) provide.
Just my 2 cents.

Phil:

Which Spiros....Weich or Orchestra?
Thanks.

[bassdogEmer]

Yo Phil,
Can you offer any insight to what it was like studying with Dennis Irwin?? Love his playing

[Phil Rowan]

Spiro Orchs (the Mittels). They are plenty dark sounding and get a close gut sound, along with some really nice growling/buzzing. And for bowing they sound fine too, but I like the sound of the Dominants D and G bowed way more than Spiros.

I can seriously thank Dennis for getting me to where I'm at today. Before I got to school I had some training from private instructors, but I have to say that Dennis was really the one who put me on my feet. I just fell in love with his sound/feel, and I started experimenting with gut strings pretty much as soon as I started studying with him. He would bring in all kinds of things to play, like 2 part Bach inventions, charts from the VJO, really simple Count Basie bass lines. I remember him playing one part of an invention and singing the other, spot on. Once, when he messed up his hand, he brought in a reduction of the 4th movement of Mahlers 5th (he's a Mahler freak, as well as a classical freak). He played one part on piano and I played the other, and I almost cried that lesson. We would also play rhythm changes through the keys, trading 8's, and really, I can safely say that I owe whatever ability I have to swing, to him. He's such a deep cat that's kinda scary/out sometimes, but in a good way, of course.
If you can get a lesson with him, it's well worth it. He's a great guy.

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

Spiro Orchs (the Mittels). They are plenty dark sounding and get a close gut sound, along with some really nice growling/buzzing. And for bowing they sound fine too, but I like the sound of the Dominants D and G bowed way more than Spiros.

I can seriously thank Dennis for getting me to where I'm at today. Before I got to school I had some training from private instructors, but I have to say that Dennis was really the one who put me on my feet. I just fell in love with his sound/feel, and I started experimenting with gut strings pretty much as soon as I started studying with him. He would bring in all kinds of things to play, like 2 part Bach inventions, charts from the VJO, really simple Count Basie bass lines. I remember him playing one part of an invention and singing the other, spot on. Once, when he messed up his hand, he brought in a reduction of the 4th movement of Mahlers 5th (he's a Mahler freak, as well as a classical freak). He played one part on piano and I played the other, and I almost cried that lesson. We would also play rhythm changes through the keys, trading 8's, and really, I can safely say that I owe whatever ability I have to swing, to him. He's such a deep cat that's kinda scary/out sometimes, but in a good way, of course.
If you can get a lesson with him, it's well worth it. He's a great guy.

Phil! What's up brother? Long time no see. I second the "Dennis is the Man" motion. He is such a great all around musician and the nicest guy you'll ever meet. I saw him play with Matt Wilson's Arts and Crafts and he broke out his clarinet and sounded killing on that too!

I just put a set of Weichs on my bass, and man I'm loving them. I do miss the Velvets sometimes, though. But the Weichs really have a singing quality that I'm digging right now. I'm sure I'll switch again....

The only string I'm not so crazy about is the E. Seems a little dead compared to the others....

[Marcus Johnson]

Hey Pete... wondering if you had the same experience I had when going from Velvets back to Spiros. For me, I was just a lot more confident when it came to landing on the pitch, especially in thumb position, and especially arco. It seems that I can really zero in on the pitches when I have the Thomstiks on there.

My weichs are really paying off right now; I've no idea how old they are, as I pulled them out of my used string drawer, and they've been on the bass for awhile now. Every time I start G.A.S.-ing for new strings, I play another gig and think, "man, these things sound great". I certainly don't mind putting off buying strings for awhile, and who knows?... the way things are going, I might just stick with the Spiros. Hard to mess with success.

PS... regarding the E string... try a Mittel E in place of the Weich. That's what I've got (thanks, Arnold). Sounds and feels great.

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

Hey Pete... wondering if you had the same experience I had when going from Velvets back to Spiros. For me, I was just a lot more confident when it came to landing on the pitch, especially in thumb position, and especially arco. It seems that I can really zero in on the pitches when I have the Thomstiks on there.

My weichs are really paying off right now; I've no idea how old they are, as I pulled them out of my used string drawer, and they've been on the bass for awhile now. Every time I start G.A.S.-ing for new strings, I play another gig and think, "man, these things sound great". I certainly don't mind putting off buying strings for awhile, and who knows?... the way things are going, I might just stick with the Spiros. Hard to mess with success.

Marcus, yes I had the same experience when I first switched back from the Velvets. After bowing them, I couldn't believe the differnce! They were so easy to play and I realized my arco playing was a lot better than I thought! Thumb position in general was much eaiser, I think in part becuase the action didn't need to be as high.

The Velvets were great, don't get me wrong, I loved the gritty arco sound and the gut-like tone. But for convienence and ease of play definately the Weichs are better. Also, at the time I switched back I was getting heavy into Ray Brown (who isn't? ) and I was looking for that warm sustaining sound like Ray in the 90's/00's.

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

PS... regarding the E string... try a Mittel E in place of the Weich. That's what I've got (thanks, Arnold). Sounds and feels great.

Thanks for the tip, I'll check it out.

[Uncletoad]

Ahh... The TB love affair with Animas is waning. Parting is such sweet sorrow. Tune in next month to see which flava of the month will be lying dead on the curb. Will it be Weichs? Will it be Guts? Bellcantbows? How bout Dominuts?

I'm on the edge of my seat.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Ahh... The TB love affair with Animas is waning. Parting is such sweet sorrow.

I miss them, too. I just listened to myself on Animas, from a live CD recorded last year. Kee-rist..... sounded great.

Then, I happened to catch a TV broadcast, from a Grammy thing I did about a month ago. Junk bass, strung with guts (unwound D & G), shure mic on a stand...... sounded friggin' fantastic.

It's just a balancing act, isn't it? And it never ends.

[Pcocobass]

Your right Marcus, it really never ends. And I'm not a string/equipment junkie. I like to find something and stick with it. Especially because this stuff is so expensive.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by MJ

I miss them, too. I just listened to myself on Animas, from a live CD recorded last year. Kee-rist..... sounded great.

I missed them until Saturday when they were mixed with the Gut D/G. The Anima E/A were sucking wind.

[Phil Rowan]

Yo Pete! How ya been?
I saw the Bill Mays trio a while back, with Martin Wind and Matt Wilson (absolutely killing), and Martin Wind had on what appeared to be Animas for the E and A, and I think Spiro Mittels (maybe Weichs, though I think Mittels) for the D and G. What a great sound he got out of that set. Normally I would have thought you would want to do the reverse, but he does a lot of arco playing, so that's probably why.

The Weichs for me just felt too light. I bought them originally because I was afraid that the Mittels would have too much tension, but it turns out the Mittels feel just fine, and to me have just a bit more meat to them. I also didn't really dig their sound bowed...but then again, they were o my Kay, so that might have something to with it.

I'm still tempted to go back to guts on my Kay, at least for the D and G, because when I had those on I got a HUGE sound outta that sucker (to quote Hal Galper in one of my old mini disked ensembles). I once had Chorda E and A, Efrano D and Chorda G, and I think that might have been the best sounding set on there. Ah, those were the days..

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I missed them until Saturday when they were mixed with the Gut D/G. The Anima E/A were sucking wind.

Yeah, I heard ya. The Animas were great on my bass. But my recent gut experience was really an eye opener for me. Just getting that much volume out of a fiberglass bass kind of rocked my world. These were not high end guts, either. But I played a few notes, and I was smiling. The feel was fantastic, pretty much effortless despite a less than ideal setup. I immediately started imagining what some good quality intestines would sound like on my La Scala.

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

I'm still tempted to go back to guts on my Kay, at least for the D and G, because when I had those on I got a HUGE sound outta that sucker (to quote Hal Galper in one of my old mini disked ensembles).

You actually recorded that combo? I would just put my iPod on the desk next to me and pretend like it was a recording device, he was too old to know the difference.

[Phil Rowan]

Man, you'd be a fool not to record that combo, at least that's how I feel. I think his was probably my best combo experience while at school. We delved way deeper into the music than any other combo I had.

[Pcocobass]

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

Man, you'd be a fool not to record that combo, at least that's how I feel. I think his was probably my best combo experience while at school. We delved way deeper into the music than any other combo I had.

It's funny man. If you talk to people about that combo they either rave about it or hate it with a passion. Next time I see you maybe we'll talk about it.......