Is Steel in the Air?

[Monte]

After reading some of the posts of Unkatoad and Yoadrian, I have been considering trying the first complete set of strings that has no gut or velvets since.....I can't even remember. I think I briefly had a full set of Obligato's when they first came out.

I have been spending a lot more time than I used to in thumb position, and trying to think a lot more melodically as I am doing a lot of duo gigs.

I have really been noticing that my ancient Innovation H strings (E & A) have a wonderful clarity that I love, and the Gamuts just give me something different. Although the Gamuts have a lot of punch in the upper register, that clarity is just not there.

So I am going to try the D & G Innovation and see what I think. I've been suspecting my modern bass (Solano Klotz) likes higher tension anyway.

We shall see, and I'll report more later.

[Monte]

Ok, day one. Put on the D & G (used) Innovation Honey.

First time I've been gut free and faux gut free in ages and ya know what....I don't hate it. Maybe Toad is onto something about gut changing the way you play for the better.

In the interest of science before I changed strings I sight read a bass line in the Rufus book and recorded it with the Gamuts on. Then I recorded the same line after I put on the steel strings. After listening to them both, I think the overall sound is more even with all steel and the clarity is very nice. I still feel like the bass was louder and/ or more resonant with the gut, but I'm sure the bass needs time to adjust.

I'll keep them on a few weeks and record it again to see what I think.

I sure do like the way they respond so quickly and arco is much easier. It does feel weird to have such a thin string on top....

[Monte]

After the 3rd day, tuning is stable and I'm really digging the sound.

For the life of me, I don't know why Innovations aren't more popular. Dark but clear, bowable, and the tension seems manageable, even to someone used to gut. I still have my string height pretty high, and I'm not struggling on them

The real test will be my 4 hour trio gig Friday. Anxious to see how they sound with my mic -> Mixer -> Schertler Pub speaker setup sounds with this.

[Francois Blais]

Did you put the rest of the set, or just the D & G?

[Monte]

Originally Posted by Francois Blais

Did you put the rest of the set, or just the D & G?

I already had the E & A that was on with the Gamuts so it is a full set of the Innovation Honeys.

[Uncletoad]

Sounds like fun.

[Jeremy Allen]

But Innovations are synthetic, not steel...faux gut like Obligatos, Evah Pirazzis, Kolstein Heritage, Dominants, and Velvets.

I had an experience with them ten years ago and I thought they were really great. But my string ennui is leading me to believe that I'm perfectly happy with Spirocores and an Oliv these days.

[Monte]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Allen

But Innovations are synthetic, not steel...faux gut like Obligatos, Evah Pirazzis, Kolstein Heritage, Dominants, and Velvets.

You know, I completely missed the fact that these aren't solid steel. They seem completely different than Obligatos and Heritages, both of which I've used.

At any rate I'm digging them.

Anyone have experience with longevity on these? The E & A have been on my bass a long time and still sound good. I'm thinking at least 2 years because they were on with the Olivs when I first moved to Mississippi and only briefly taken off when I tried the Velvet Garbos.

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by Monte

I already had the E & A that was on with the Gamuts so it is a full set of the Innovation Honeys.

Thanks, Honey!

[Eric Hochberg]

I used an Innovation H G string for a while with Weichs and liked it, but the "plastic-y" sound that many have cited was really pronounced and I switched to an Evah G with better results.

I thought you were in love with the Compas 180s, Monte, and now you're having an affair with another string. Tsk, tsk!!

[Monte]

Originally Posted by ehochberg

I used an Innovation H G string for a while with Weichs and liked it, but the "plastic-y" sound that many have cited was really pronounced and I switched to an Evah G with better results.

I thought you were in love with the Compas 180s, Monte, and now you're having an affair with another string. Tsk, tsk!!

Yeah, I've read that about the Innovations but at least on my Solano Klotz I get none of the Plastic-y thing......I do know the sound because that was what I got with Obligatos and Kolstein Heritages on my Juzek.

Yeah, I did stray from the 180's....no real reason. I remember my supplier being out before a recording session so I went with my standby Oliv D & G and got the Innovation E & A. I tried the Innovation because I remember the Superflexibles had taken awhile to lose the buzzsaw pizz, and the recording was in a week. By my recollection, I must have had those 180's on for nearly 2 years. After the windings on my Olivs started separating I took the opportunity to try real gut and went to the Gamuts.

Come to think of it, maybe my next set will be the 180's. The gig scene here is a little thinner than I used to have in Oklahoma/ Texas, so the price of the Innovations is sure easier to swallow than the Velvets!

[Monte]

Ok, I survived the 4 hours with non gut last night.

I admit at times I missed that bounce that you only get from gut, but the clarity was nice. The telling part of that was the vocalist actually made a comment about a particular part of one of my solos, saying she had never heard me like that before. I didn't tell her anything was different either.

I am a little finger sore today, as I really tend to dig in, even more so when the place got full and loud.

I think I'm pretty happy with the Honeys

[kwd]

After years of experimenting I've finally settled on the Innovation 140Bs and I haven't looked back. Like most of us, I need a string that does everything. I've also been puzzled why Innovations aren't more popular.

Monte - if you're missing the larger diameter and a note shape more similar to gut, you might want to consider the 140Bs.

To me, 140Bs are like Obligatos without the mwah, more bite and roughly double the usable life. They don't have the sustain of the Oblis but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for a darker, juicier pizz sound. They sound great bowed. They seem to want a pretty heavy bow hand. Their thickness can create some problems in arco thumb position but I've been able to work with it.

[CB3000]

Originally Posted by kwd

After years of experimenting I've finally settled on the Innovation 140Bs and I haven't looked back. Like most of us, I need a string that does everything. I've also been puzzled why Innovations aren't more popular.

Monte - if you're missing the larger diameter and a note shape more similar to gut, you might want to consider the 140Bs.

To me, 140Bs are like Obligatos without the mwah, more bite and roughly double the usable life. They don't have the sustain of the Oblis but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make for a darker, juicier pizz sound. They sound great bowed. They seem to want a pretty heavy bow hand. Their thickness can create some problems in arco thumb position but I've been able to work with it.

are these the solo gauge you are using? i am looking for a larger diameter synthetic core string to try.

my hands and my bass do not like steel strings! i have tried dominants and sensicores (synthetic cores) and am still looking...

are the 140bs so large you need to widen bridge/nut slots?

thanks for any advice-i have been using gut/steel mix but i want to try something else.

[Adrian Cho]

How would you guys compare the Innovation 140H or 140B to the Velvet Anima or Garbo?

[kwd]

Originally Posted by CB3000

are these the solo gauge you are using? i am looking for a larger diameter synthetic core string to try.

my hands and my bass do not like steel strings! i have tried dominants and sensicores (synthetic cores) and am still looking...

are the 140bs so large you need to widen bridge/nut slots?

thanks for any advice-i have been using gut/steel mix but i want to try something else.

I'm using orchestra gauge. I did not need to widen any of the nut slots but I did need to build up the nut slot on the G to create more space. The G string flapped against the fingerboard between the stopped note and the nut when I used the bow.

I have a confession to make. I'm back to Corellis, but not because I prefer them to the Innovations. The Corellis amplify better. The amplified sound of the Innovations is a little ambiguous. I used the Corellis in church last week. The Corellis have a more focused center when amplified, which is important as I need to hear myself over the singers and other musicians. I use a BassMax. At some point I will re-install my Realist to see if the Innovations do better with that pickup.

[AMJBASS]

The 140H's are very similar to Thomastik Dominant IMO. Maybe a little thicker sounding. They are different sounding(and feeling) than Velvets. A little more centered in pitch.

For the record, I think I better stop coming to Talkbass!! You guys.... I KNOW that I'll keep coming back to Spiro Mittles, but now you got me wanting to try the 140H's again(which I really liked when I had them a few years ago).

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

For the record, I think I better stop coming to Talkbass!! You guys.... I KNOW that I'll keep coming back to Spiro Mittles, but now you got me wanting to try the 140H's again(which I really liked when I had them a few years ago).

Yea I'm down with that.

I have Spiros on my basses now too. They just work for me. I have tons of strings laying around doing nothing. I should trade them all for a couple decades worth of Spirocores.

Nevertheless I always end up trying something else, thinking it's great, then wake up one day and put Spiros back on and I'm alright again.

[M Ramsey]

Originally Posted by Monte

Ok, I survived the 4 hours with non gut last night.

I admit at times I missed that bounce that you only get from gut, but the clarity was nice. The telling part of that was the vocalist actually made a comment about a particular part of one of my solos, saying she had never heard me like that before. I didn't tell her anything was different either.

I am a little finger sore today, as I really tend to dig in, even more so when the place got full and loud.

I think I'm pretty happy with the Honeys

Playing gut strings require you to pull the strings more, to get them moving, in order for the bass to produce the desired sound. Once you become adjusted to that technique, then, again this is me assuming (you know what that means), you bring that physical technique back to the steels strings and the TONE and VOLUME seems better.

Maybe I'm way off base. I did play a couple of nice carved basses in Nashville a few weeks back with steels and they sounded pretty good to me. Not as good as my bass with guts, but pretty good. It's been years now since I've played steels on a regular basis.

Does this make any sense, Toad?

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by M Ramsey

Playing gut strings require you to pull the strings more, to get them moving, in order for the bass to produce the desired sound. Once you become adjusted to that technique, then, again this is me assuming (you know what that means), you bring that physical technique back to the steels strings and the TONE and VOLUME seems better.

Maybe I'm way off base. I did play a couple of nice carved basses in Nashville a few weeks back with steels and they sounded pretty good to me. Not as good as my bass with guts, but pretty good. It's been years now since I've played steels on a regular basis.

Does this make any sense, Toad?

I think for me and what I look for in a bass sound the articulation that Spirocores have on the front of the note is very important to me. That plus the possibility of a long note and the ability to grab just about any note anywhere on the bass tips the scales for me.

For instance one of the G strings I tried on the Alsatian Queen was a Flat Chromesteel. At home in practice and on the solo recording of it the sound was fantastic. Rich and singing in a way the Spirocore couldn't do, while the Spirocores sounded buzzy and rude in comparison. Arco was no contest, the Flat Chromesteel sung under the bow better than any G I put on that bass.

On the gig though that same string got lost in the mix. It didn't propell the time in the same way as the spirocore and all the pretty stuff just got washed out. I ended up avoiding the G string on most of my lines because the grove got holes punched in it when I tried to use it. Arco was still great on the Flat Chromesteel but I don't use the bow enough on my gigs to warrant compromising my pizz sound for it.

I put the spiro G back on during break and the second set I was back to normal. Punchy and easy all across the bass. Didn't have to avoid anything anywhere.

I had the same issue with Guts but even more so. I love that sound and how it does what it does, but day in and day out for the variety of things I do the Gut can't hang in every venue in every style. More than once I've been on a gig and had to tough it out with a sound that wasn't working in the room or with the ensemble when I had Gut on top.

Spirocores can't sound like gut but they never suck.