Steel/gut combo question

Marc Piane · #1 09-03-2007, 07:41 PM

I recently got a D and G Eudoxa used from a fellow TB'r (thanks Stan). I really dig the tone. I had Weichs on my bass before and am using the E and A from that set. The sound is good since the Weichs are about 6 months old (with daily playing) and are well broken in. The tension feels cool and all. The only thing that is a little strange is the D Eudoxa and the A Weich are the exact same gauge according to the chart (stickie) here. To my hands it feels a little strange.

My question is, since guts seem to be thicker than steel...

Is this about par for the course when mixing steel and gut?

Mark Perna · #2 09-03-2007, 08:22 PM

Yeah. It is a bit to get used to. I put guts on my backup bass so I still had a bass with steel on it. I put the D and G on first and then eventually put the gut A on and then the E and then took the E off again in favor of a Spiro E. Before I put the gut A on, it was really strange moving between the D and A. The timbre difference was startling and the feel of the strings also took some getting used to. I didn't really like the sound of the steel A with the gut D so I went ahead and put the gut A on and liked it quite a bit more. The gut E, I didn't like so much.

Gut takes a bit of getting used to. With gut it is really easy to do some things that are hard to do with steel like getting a serious thump when you walk but it makes it harder to do a lot of the stuff you're used to doing with steel like soloing.

I find gut really hard to solo on after playing steel. Steel responds fast with lots of sustain and with a minimum of string movement which lends itself to fast, precise playing. Gut doesn't respond real fast, it doesn't have much sustain (at least compared to steel) and there's a WHOLE LOT of string movement. If you have a gig where you have to solo like you're getting paid by the note, gut probably isn't what you want on the bass.

On the plus side, gut is really great unamplified. The sound just booms out of your bass in a way that steel just can't match. And if you're primarily just laying it down, gut can't be beat. Plus, walking in thumb position is a new experience with gut. Steel kind of craps out in thumb position. The sound thins out a bit. Not with gut. You'll get the same fat tone up top that you get in first position. Walk up the G string and experience the power in thumb position.

I take my gut bass out infrequently because, most of the time, I have to take a lot of solos. Whenever I have an unamplified gig or one where I won't be soloing much, the gut goes. Otherwise, I play steel.

mark

Uncletoad · #3 09-03-2007, 08:24 PM

Wound gut and plain are very different.

It would be weird to have two strings the same size and similar tension at different pitch. I'm sure you could get used to it.

The only wound gut I've liked yet was the Olive D/G and they have reliability issues.

Marc Piane · #4 09-03-2007, 08:28 PM

The sound is cool. I was thinking of putting the Stark E I have on my other bass on this one and picking up a Dominant A or Mittel A. My main concern is the E is broken in and the Eudoxa's are already fairly dark. I'm afraid a new Mittel or Dominant is going to stick out like a sore thumb.

I assume it is ok for my bass right?

Marc Piane · #5 09-04-2007, 05:29 AM

After sleeping on it and playing a little this morning I am leaning pretty strongly towards putting that Stark E on. I think the E string has always been the weak link in the Weich set and I have a nicely broken in Stark E.

The question is the A. I either thinking about Spiro Med, Dominant, or Obligato. Or maybe the Evil Paparazzi (as Marcus put it). I always really liked the Obligato A. I didn't like the rest of the set but the A was cool.

I'm thinking of running to the music store today so any feedback would be helpful.

I may also do a gig or two as is so I can get a better idea of what I like and what I need.

Uncletoad · #6 09-04-2007, 05:54 AM

You can get used to just about anything pizz, arco is tougher when crossing strings or bowing on a flatter bridge.

I had exactly the same gage gut G and steel A with the same gage gut D and steel E for awhile on the bass. That was a bit weird but not bad after I got used to it.

A weich A and Stark E is is gonna suck I'm pretty sure.

Stark E is a badass string, if you can play it use it.

Dom A or Spiro Med A I guess.

Michael Case · #7 09-04-2007, 06:15 AM

And another bassist falls victim to STRING CHANGE MADNESS!

Marc Piane · #8 09-04-2007, 06:38 AM

oops.

Marc Piane · #9 09-04-2007, 06:41 AM

Yer right Mike. I was a died in wool Spiro guy for a long time. I might still be, I've only had these strings on for a few days. I have gradually been getting more and more into guys with a really huge sound though. Larry Grenadier, Eric Revis, Dennis Irwin, etc. I also have been pulling harder and getting my amp more and more in the background. I feel I have reached the volume/hugeness limit of Weichs. They get a nice tone once they have settled in, just not very loud. The G and D Mittel and Starks are way too harsh for my taste.

Michael Case · #10 09-04-2007, 07:23 AM

I used a Weich/Oliv mix and the A and D string issue was not an issue. I got used to it even arco. I think Weichs are a great match to the Olivs in terms of tension and tone. The Mittles were not such a nice match.

Marc Piane · #11 09-08-2007, 08:17 PM

So I just got home from a gig and I tried an experiment. I had a Stark E and an Obligato on my other bass. I put those two on the bottom with the Eudoxas on top. Wow, is my bass loud!!! It was a wedding dinner and cocktails gig and I barely used my amp.

One thing I found interesting... I felt like the harder I played the louder the strings got. I was used to Weichs were there was a limit.

Only problem... I got so in to it that I got a blister. I haven't had a blister in years. But man, everything sounded so huge and full.

Uncletoad · #12 09-08-2007, 09:17 PM

That's one of those Stark blisters.

I've had them. Yikes.

Marc Piane · #13 09-08-2007, 10:04 PM

That string is such a cannon though. It made the walls shake and the ladies swoon.

I'm never going back.

Uncletoad · #14 09-08-2007, 10:09 PM

I try it every month or so until it kills me. It's a bad mofo.

I end up pulling it eventually. At 14mm it's a tough string to do 4 nights a week with and the guts just don't work lower.

I haven't put myself through that in awhile maybe its time again....

Marc Piane · #15 09-08-2007, 10:17 PM

We'll see how I feel in a few days. I have a gig tomorrow, a session Tues, rehearsal Wed, gig Thurs, gig Friday. If I survive the week I'm totally sold.

It is actually a pretty busy month. Sept might have to be redubbed "The Month O Pain".

I love it though. My fingers haven't hurt like this in a while. It is a great feeling.

Jeez I sound sick.

Uncletoad · #16 09-10-2007, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I try it every month or so until it kills me. It's a bad mofo.

I end up pulling it eventually. At 14mm it's a tough string to do 4 nights a week with and the guts just don't work lower.

I haven't put myself through that in awhile maybe its time again....

Quote:

Originally Posted by flanders

We'll see how I feel in a few days. I have a gig tomorrow, a session Tues, rehearsal Wed, gig Thurs, gig Friday. If I survive the week I'm totally sold.

It is actually a pretty busy month. Sept might have to be redubbed "The Month O Pain".

I love it though. My fingers haven't hurt like this in a while. It is a great feeling.

Jeez I sound sick.

Yes you are sick and so am I. You got me thinking about that pig again so I dug out one of my Stark E strings and put it on last night. It's pretty much a fresh chicken that hasn't been broken in yet. Should be fun. At the moment it doesn't seem so bad....

Phil Rowan · #17 09-11-2007, 08:12 PM

This is based on my own experience (all thanks to my main man, Dennis Irwin, a.k.a. Ski)...

I think one of the best set ups I've had on my old Kay is Chordas on the E and A, a plain gut Efrano (I think that was it, the lower priced gut from Lemur) on the D, and a plain gut Chorda on the G.

The Chorda E is a monster of a string (so thick you'd think you're playing a rope), but that set up made my bass sound HUGE. Those round-wound Chordas have a real growl to them and lots of presence. The Efrano D is thinner than the Chorda D, so you get way more clarity, and the Chorda G is thicker than the Efrano G, so you get a bit more sound.

I didn't find it hard to solo with those strings, and if I was able to play those rapid-fire up tempos it shows that those strings can do more than you might think. On the other hand, if you had a (good) steel E, and the rest as gut, it would most likely blend in just fine, with not much of a noticeable difference.

Aw man, now I'm all tempted to go order some guts for my ol' Kay.

Marc Piane · #18 09-12-2007, 05:29 AM

To quote John Mellencamp

"Hurt so good
Come on baby make it hurt so good
Sometimes love dont feel like it should
You make it hurt so good"

M Ramsey · #19 09-12-2007, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Rowan

Aw man, now I'm all tempted to go order some guts for my ol' Kay.

Toad, quick, call the doctor. He's got the disease!

There is a warmth and a sound with gut strings that you just can't get with steels. I also like the lower tension underneath the left hand. I'm not saying the developers of the bass were rocket scientists, but the combo of guts and the double bass still sounds good to me. Who would have thunk we'd still be salivating over these strings many, many years down the road?

Uncletoad · #20 09-12-2007, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M Ramsey

Toad, quick, call the doctor. He's got the disease!

To late for the doc. Call a priest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toadnutstool

I dug out one of my Stark E strings and put it on last night. It's pretty much a fresh chicken that hasn't been broken in yet. Should be fun. At the moment it doesn't seem so bad....

Ohh. That's a sweet string. My last one was so dead I forgot how good it is. Big and loud and tight. Either I'm getting stronger or the thing is better newer. It didn't bother me at all last night.