Stretching DB Strings

[Violen]

Is there any reason i shouldn't stretch a new pair of upright strings?

On Guitar and Electric Bass its mandatory. (That's step one to keeping a Floyd Rose in tune.) I can see how a steel/metal center upright string probably wouldn't be damaged by stretching it.

But what about hybrids and non steel cores? Is there a danger?

Is this something that most of you even do?


Discuss!

[JtheJazzMan]

One thing to keep in mind is that the angle bridge can creep towards the fingerboard as you constantly retune.

[Violen]

Thank you

Does anyone else have any advice?

[Ed Fuqua]

Always match your tie to your pocket square.

[Damon Rondeau]

If there's a free meal on the gig, eat it.

Other than that, the strings stretch when you tune 'em up. Tune, stretch, repeat till done. Are you thinking some kind of pre-stretching is necessary? It isn't.

[CPike]

+1 - Don't pre-stretch, just...don't. And, for what it's worth, it's not *mandatory* to pre-stretch guitar or electric bass strings either. Pre-stretching guitar strings may shorten the amount of time it takes to settle in by a day or so, but runs the risk of making the string uneven and prematurely false. Just be patient and let any string stretch normally through the tuning process.

cdp

[Tony G]

Originally Posted by CPike

+1 - Don't pre-stretch, just...don't. And, for what it's worth, it's not *mandatory* to pre-stretch guitar or electric bass strings either. Pre-stretching guitar strings may shorten the amount of time it takes to settle in by a day or so, but runs the risk of making the string uneven and prematurely false. Just be patient and let any string stretch normally through the tuning process.

cdp

+1...couldn't have said it better myself.

[SteveC]

Originally Posted by CPike

+1 - Don't pre-stretch, just...don't. And, for what it's worth, it's not *mandatory* to pre-stretch guitar or electric bass strings either. Pre-stretching guitar strings may shorten the amount of time it takes to settle in by a day or so, but runs the risk of making the string uneven and prematurely false. Just be patient and let any string stretch normally through the tuning process.

cdp

Yep. I just put some Evah's on my school bass. I just go a couple times a day and tune it up to pitch. It'll get there eventually.

[Violen]

Sorry, but if you stretch strings and it makes them false, they were false to begin with. In order to set up any even tension bridge on a guitar you must stretch the strings in order to get them to stay in tune. This isnt my opinion, it was taught to me by a luthier named John Carruthers. He helped design the Floyd Rose with Floyd. My Guitars and Basses play better and react better since i started doing this 8 years ago. I would reccomend you trying it. Whomever gave you the information that it decreases lifespan and can make them "Uneven" or "False" dosent understand how strings work.

Im asking a specific question about Upright strings with hybrid cores. Im looking for an educated answer, not somthing like "Just...dont". That doesnt tell me anything, it only makes me angry because you arent explaining yourself. It dosent actually help the discussion or conversation at all.

So does anyone have any information as to my question, as i said, i would be gratefull.

[Damon Rondeau]

Well, how about this for an explanation: of the thousands of double bassists who have come through TB, you're the first one to bring up the issue of pre-stretching strings. Not a single one of us has raised the issue before. Could be we're all ignorant or wrong, or it could be that nobody has found it to be necessary.

There's a universe of difference between your Rose bridge complications and a violin-type, unfixed bridge. Want to slur a note, bend a note, slide a note? We don't use whammy bars, we use our hands and ears.

So don't get upset, just understand that you are asking a truly left-field question.

[CPike]

Originally Posted by Violen

Sorry, but if you stretch strings and it makes them false, they were false to begin with. In order to set up any even tension bridge on a guitar you must stretch the strings in order to get them to stay in tune. This isnt my opinion, it was taught to me by a luthier named John Carruthers. He helped design the Floyd Rose with Floyd. My Guitars and Basses play better and react better since i started doing this 8 years ago. I would reccomend you trying it. Whomever gave you the information that it decreases lifespan and can make them "Uneven" or "False" dosent understand how strings work.

Im asking a specific question about Upright strings with hybrid cores. Im looking for an educated answer, not somthing like "Just...dont". That doesnt tell me anything, it only makes me angry because you arent explaining yourself. It dosent actually help the discussion or conversation at all.

So does anyone have any information as to my question, as i said, i would be gratefull.

I'm familiar with Mr. Carruthers' name and reputation which is highly regarded. Still, he is but one luthier in a field of many who have varying opinions regarding this issue and many others.

I'm a guitarist as well, and while I don't use a Floyd Rose trem, I have tried pre-stretching guitar and elec bass strings in the past and have decided based on my own personal experience that they sound better longer if I refrain from pre-stretching. If pre-stretching works for you and doesn't cause you problems, then go for it! One of the most common buzzwords here on talkbass is YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary), which applies here as well. My opinion on pre-stretching is just as valid as yours or Carruthers'. My opinion/experience is, like yours, a combination of shared information and experience. There are some luthiers who are ambivalent to the issue of pre-stretching and some who believe as I do that it can be harmful. There's no Gospel truth in the matter here - I'm not attempting to shove my opinion down your throat so I'd appreciate it if you refrain from doing the same. If you re-read my original post, you'll find that I used qualifiers "may" and "runs the risk". I didn't say that pre-stretching will absolutely make strings false or uneven. Perhaps taking a less fundamentalist stance on this will be helpful to you.

We all have different styles of advice-giving here; if I didn't answer your question in exactly the manner and with the content you expected, then well, get used to it - it's how things work around here. Instead of getting angry, a more appropriate response would be to show appreciation for someone taking the time to help you, then reiterate/rephrase your question if you think it wasn't received the way you intended.

My "Don't, just...don't" statement is my advice to you on DB string pre-stretching. It's just not something we do, or even give much (if any) thought about. Err on the side of caution, if for no other reason than DB strings are considerably more expensive than guitar strings and therefore aren't worth "experimenting" on.

cdp

[MrSidecar]

I think, although I am not sure, but there might be a misconception as to what precisely holds the string in tune if it gets "pre-stretched" on guitar or electric bass.

From my personal experience, it is not the stretching, but the tightening of the string on the tuner´s axis, so that there is no slippage possible later on when you use the vibrato. Also, if you have badly finished nuts, you prevent the string from hanging in there, thus making it more stable tuning-wise. I doubt that the mechanical stretch of the string is beneficial to the tuning stability (or to anything else).

(The slippage issue is of course a non-issue on floyd rose equipped guitars, as they have a nut lock, so the machines are effectively out of the system after you've tuned up the strings.)

That said, as far as I know, but again this might be all wrong, bass strings are produced under tension (that means, under the tension necessary to tune them to the note they are supposed to be tuned to), so the in-tune-tension is the most "right" tension for a double bass string.

But to sing in the choir, YMMV.

Best

Sidecar

[Marcus Johnson]

I think everyone needs a stretch break.

The only stretching I do is when Emil Richards gives me nine frickin' solo choruses on Cherokee at 780 zillion bpm.

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by Marcus Johnson

I think everyone needs a stretch break.

The only stretching I do is when Emil Richards gives me nine frickin' solo choruses on Cherokee at 780 zillion bpm.

And you got that after comping 75 choruses behind other soloists.

[Marcus Johnson]

Yup. Good thing I stretched beforehand.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by calivox

And you got that after comping 75 choruses behind other soloists.

Yeah. Why is bass always last?

I played a big band gig once, and a friend of mine was in the audience. He told me later: "You're the only guy who was working throughout the entire gig."

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by fdeck

Yeah. Why is bass always last?

I played a big band gig once, and a friend of mine was in the audience. He told me later: "You're the only guy who was working throughout the entire gig."

You really need to ask?!?

About 2 months I started playing trombone again after a 25 year layoff. Mostly for fun but it came back really quickly so I might start trying score a couple horn gigs. Anyway, a week ago Wednesday, I went to my first jam session and played in front of a rhythm section for the first time since 1985. I played the head and then my solo. And then I stood there. I didn't know what to do with myself. As a bassist, the only time I stop playing is for the drum trades or the big break when the drummer actually solos. Other than that I'm playing. With the horn, I just stood there looking and feeling like a dork. I didn't have the horn player face down where they kind of look like they're grooving to what's going on but in their minds they're really impatiently waiting for all of the lesser beings to finish with their pitiful pootings so they can start spinning endless streams of golden notes again. I'll have to watch them more closely next time (more than likely while I'm comping my 75th chorus of Bebop or Giant Steps or something).

mark

[bejoyous]

I think what Volen is talking about with the pre-stretching and the tension over the bridge is when we tune up and up to pitch, there is a tension difference between the two parts of the string. The playing length and the bridge to tailpiece length.

As we tune up, the tension is greater on the playing side. Sometimes the bridge moves a little closer to the fingerboard, sometimes it doesn't.

Perhaps this small tension difference causes the string to have wonky harmonics and effect the playability of the rest of the notes.

When I tune up a new pair of strings, I lift the string out of the bridge groove a mm and place it down again to release the the difference of tension. I do this until the string stabilizes. It seems to make an improvement in playability.

I can usually feel if the string tensions are imbalanced; it kinda feels like when I have a head cold coming on. I look down and I'll see the bridge is no longer straight and the string length is slightly shorter, too. I release the tension on the string & I straighten the bridge and the "headache" goes away.

[Violen]

Originally Posted by calivox

You really need to ask?!?

About 2 months I started playing trombone again after a 25 year layoff. Mostly for fun but it came back really quickly so I might start trying score a couple horn gigs. Anyway, a week ago Wednesday, I went to my first jam session and played in front of a rhythm section for the first time since 1985. I played the head and then my solo. And then I stood there. I didn't know what to do with myself. As a bassist, the only time I stop playing is for the drum trades or the big break when the drummer actually solos. Other than that I'm playing. With the horn, I just stood there looking and feeling like a dork. I didn't have the horn player face down where they kind of look like they're grooving to what's going on but in their minds they're really impatiently waiting for all of the lesser beings to finish with their pitiful pootings so they can start spinning endless streams of golden notes again. I'll have to watch them more closely next time (more than likely while I'm comping my 75th chorus of Bebop or Giant Steps or something).

mark

Mark, if i were ever in a luxurious position of not having to play every song, the whole time, I guess id hum the melody in my head and see how the ideas of the other soloists played off of it. Or come up with backgrounds.

Ok i would probably go sit at the bar or rob a bank. I have no idea what i would do if i had to just stand there. That dont sound natural. Freakin horn players.

[Violen]

Originally Posted by bejoyous

I think what Violen is talking about with the pre-stretching and the tension over the bridge is when we tune up and up to pitch, there is a tension difference between the two parts of the string. The playing length and the bridge to tailpiece length.

As we tune up, the tension is greater on the playing side. Sometimes the bridge moves a little closer to the fingerboard, sometimes it doesn't.

Perhaps this small tension difference causes the string to have wonky harmonics and effect the playability of the rest of the notes.

When I tune up a new pair of strings, I lift the string out of the bridge groove a mm and place it down again to release the the difference of tension. I do this until the string stabilizes. It seems to make an improvement in playability.

I can usually feel if the string tensions are imbalanced; it kinda feels like when I have a head cold coming on. I look down and I'll see the bridge is no longer straight and the string length is slightly shorter, too. I release the tension on the string & I straighten the bridge and the "headache" goes away.

Thank you for trying to stick up for me, but i literally mean on my electric bass and guitars that i put the strings on, then pull them away from the fingerboards/fretboards and then tighten them and repeat the process on every string, untill they no longer go out of tune when i tug them.

Again im going to ask: If i did this with a steel core string, i wouldnt have a problem, and i stick by that this isnt my opinion but a fact. The only reason it would ruin a string is if the string was already defective.

What i want to know is if this process would damage a syntheic core string.

Perhaps i should start calling some string companies and share their answers here?

Like i said, i was wondering if anyone here had the technical knowledge of how synthetic core strings are made to be able to answer the question of if they can be stretched or if it would damage them.

So, Round three?