String gauges

[Jake deVilliers]

*EDIT*: this info is now available in the Wiki here:
http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.p..._String_Guages


If you have more to add or any corrections, I'd be happy to have them.

Jake

[relacey]

In the last few weeks I've been reading the string threads with great interest. I finally put together a spreadsheet of data on various DB strings. My goal was to try to objectively compare choices when I'm ready to replace my current set. What has similar tension and similar diameters, and what will necessitate a change to my bass. This info from Jake really fleshed out some missing data. I've put everything on a web page and I'll be glad to sent the spreadsheet to anyone who emails me. I've put the data in both inch-lbs and cm-kg units to make it easier to compare. I suspect there is a lot more out there that I missed and I'd be glad to add more data if you send it to me.

http://baen.tamu.edu/users/rel/perso...ssStrings.html

Disclaimers:

1. The only string on this list I've personally used is the Obligato. Some of the references (e.g. Adrian Cho and Bob Gollihur) and many of the discussions in this forum give subjective data on how various strings play or sound. In this regard I'm working from a deep, deep well of ignorance.

2. I've tried to use the best data available where there are multiple choices (e.g. manufacturer's data over individual's measurements; measurements to 0.001 vs 0.01; etc) but I haven't done any of these measurements myself so the data are only as good as the original source. In some cases I found data that didn't seem right (usually a missing decimal place; e.g. a G string listed at 0.5 inches instead of 0.05 inches) but since I didn't know for sure, I left those off.

3. I tried to the best of my ability to reference the original sources but I'm sure I missed some. Please let me know if I'm reporting your measurements as coming from someone else. Also, I somehow didn't note the source for the Velvet Garbo diameters, so if that was your data please let me know.

4. I've omitted solo strings since any tension data would be at the higher pitches and not comparable. Jake does have diameters for a couple of sets if you're looking for that and some of the other sources included tension data. I also didn't worry about strings other than the standard 4 orchestra pitches. This was complicated enough without going into all of that.

5. I tried to use tension data for a 3/4 scale (105 cm) since that is what I play. In some cases it was for a scale of 110 cm or the scale wasn't identified. I indicated the scale length in the reference where I knew it, but there are no guarantees on my part. If the strings rip your bass apart I'm not responsible!

Note to moderators: This pulls data from two of the current stickies as well as other sources, so if it belongs somewhere else feel free to move it.

UPDATE: Where there were data for both diameter and tension, I've estimated the tension at either a lower pitch (solo strings tuned down) or different scale length (105cm vs 110cm) by the method noted at the bottom of the spreadsheet. For some strings, there are unverified assumptions (namely the diameter of the TI Spirocore strings for different scale lengths) so take it with a grain of salt.

[Jake deVilliers]

We should re-check with relacey, but I'm pretty sure that all the tension figures came from the string maker's website.

The gauges, however, were almost all measured & verified by TB members.

I'm referring to the numbers in Post #2 under the 'String Gauges' heading.
It leads here http://baen.tamu.edu/users/rel/perso...ssStrings.html

Jake

[relacey]

Jake's right on the money. The tension data all came either from manufacturer's web sites or other sites (e.g. Bob Gollihur's) that quote manufacturers data. I tried to reference where all these data were taken from on the spreadsheet. I haven't verified any of these myself. The string dimensions were taken from a variety of sources including manufacturers, TB members (especially Jake, Phil, and Francois), retailers, and anything else I could find that seemed reasonable.

Some manufacturers (e.g. Innovation) don't publish tension or diameter data, so there are holes in the tables. What I'd love to see is manufacturer's data for diameter and effective string density. That way you can calculate the tension based on scale length and pitch. Effective density is a consequence of string materials and construction. Differences in density between the different strings in a set (EADG) is probably why some of the tension values are counter intuitive.

[Uncletoad]

I just got another set of Spirocore Starks so I thought I'd measure one more time on a new set. This is what I got, measuring 3 times or more with two different tools.

E .120
A .91
D .66
G .54

I've also got several sets of Mittels I measured while I was at it.

E. 111
A. 82
D. 69
G. 50

I have another Stark E string that measured .118.

I also have a Superflex G that measured .50 just like the Mittel.

I expect a bit of slop, maybe .001" or two so the SF G isn't all that surprising.

What's interesting to me is once again the D string on the Stark set measures smaller than the Mittel set. That's perplexeing. In use the Stark D is much stiffer than the Mittel. The tension numbers TI publishes are clearly different, higher for the Stark at 79.4lbs vs. the Mittel at 70.5lbs yet the Stark is thinner than the Mittel by .004 or .005 depending on the string.

I'm guessing the Stark D must have a thicker core than the Mittel D so that a smaller amount of wrap winds yields the higher tension. I don't know why that would be done but there it is.

Fwiw this is what is published in the sticky:

Medium .052 .070 .085 .111
Stark .054 .065 .090 .117

The Mittel numbers are close, .002 bigger on the G, .001 on the D, .003 on the A, and the same on the E. That can be tolerance/measurement error. .001 is darn small.

The Stark numbers are also within .001 except the E string which I've had several of and they vary from .117 to .120 all the time.

The conundrum of the Stark D is not solved after all.

[Jake deVilliers]

Thanks for the update Phil - seems as though the anomalous size is the real thing.

It sounds to me that you have explained it Phil. If they're using, say, an existing core for the D and putting a thinner wrap on it, it would yield the appropriate pitch and tension.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Thanks for the update Phil - seems as though the anomalous size is the real thing.

It sounds to me that you have explained it Phil. If they're using, say, an existing core for the D and putting a thinner wrap on it, it would yield the appropriate pitch and tension.

I wonder if overall the Stark set has thicker cores. The core contributes the lions share of tension in a string. Thin core heavy wrap has lower tension than thick core thinner wrap in the same gauge.

[Jake deVilliers]

No problem - for faster service email me direct at jake@thebassspa.com.
I only check in here periodically.

[AndreasH]

Does anyone have any gauge information on Golden Spirals, Labella Red Label Goldentone and Pirastro Pizzicato Nylon Wound D and G?

[Francois Blais]

I removed the data from the first post and updated the Wiki info.

The Wiki will be the place to get the data from now on:

http://www.talkbass.com/wiki/index.p..._String_Guages

Thanks to Jake!

Regards,
François

[Jake deVilliers]

Nice Francois, thanks.

Hey, could you please fix the spelling of 'Gauges' in the title? Merci.

[relacey]

Also, if you'd like to update the 2nd post and redirect the link, go ahead. I believe that all of that info was included with Jake's. No sense keeping too many versions around. -- Ron

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by relacey

Also, if you'd like to update the 2nd post and redirect the link, go ahead. I believe that all of that info was included with Jake's. No sense keeping too many versions around. -- Ron

There seems to be much more info in yours (tensions) and brands not listed in Jake's, so I'd leave that alone, as they're complementary to each other.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Jake deVilliers

Nice Francois, thanks.

Hey, could you please fix the spelling of 'Gauges' in the title? Merci.

I can't, sorry!
Maybe Chris Fitzgerald could, I don't know.

Regards,
François

[AndreasH]

Originally Posted by relacey

Also, if you'd like to update the 2nd post and redirect the link, go ahead. I believe that all of that info was included with Jake's. No sense keeping too many versions around. -- Ron

I've used that one very much. It has been very helpful!

[relacey]

Originally Posted by Francois Blais

There seems to be much more info in yours (tensions) and brands not listed in Jake's, so I'd leave that alone, as they're complementary to each other.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by AndreasH

I've used that one very much. It has been very helpful!

Thanks, I'll leave things as they are then. I probably need to check it against Jake's list once I get back to the office.

[tstone]

If you'd like some more data for your table, here are some measurements of string diameters from actual string sets.

Pirastro Evah Pirazzi Weich

E 0.107"
A 0.086"
D 0.069"
G 0.057"

D'Addario Helicore Hybrid Medium

E 0.111"
A 0.080"
D 0.056"
G 0.050"

The D'Addario numbers differ slightly from those quoted by Jake DeV in his original post. Not too surprising, there's bound to be some variation.

All measured with my Mitutoyo digital calipers. The EP Weichs were measured at tension, the Helicore hybrids were measured in the relaxed state. I don't have tension figures for these strings; one of these days I'll build a tension measuring fixture and get some more data.

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by tstone

If you'd like some more data for your table, here are some measurements of string diameters from actual string sets.

Pirastro Evah Pirazzi Weich

E 0.107"
A 0.086"
D 0.069"
G 0.057"

D'Addario Helicore Hybrid Medium

E 0.111"
A 0.080"
D 0.056"
G 0.050"

The D'Addario numbers differ slightly from those quoted by Jake DeV in his original post. Not too surprising, there's bound to be some variation.

All measured with my Mitutoyo digital calipers. The EP Weichs were measured at tension, the Helicore hybrids were measured in the relaxed state. I don't have tension figures for these strings; one of these days I'll build a tension measuring fixture and get some more data.

Thanks for the Weich gauges TST.

Were those Hybrids Light Gauge? I had need to measure a couple of Helicore Hybrid Mediums at the store today and the G was .054 and the A was .091, both measured at pitch.

Not very consistent, maybe?

[tstone]

I don't have the original envelopes for the Helicores, but I checked the silk colors, and according to that they are indeed Mediums. Dark green with a gold stripe at the ball end, no contrasting band at the peg end. .050" is awfully skinny for a Medium G, though, I must agree.

The Evah Weichs I am 100% sure of, though, I still have the original packaging for those.

[Jake deVilliers]

Cruising my Gauge Page, it seems as though quite a few Mittel 'G' strings are around .050, give or take a couple of thou. Its more the 'D' and 'A' strings that seem a tad slender to me...