String-matching suggestions?

thedreaded6 · #1 02-07-2010, 10:15 PM

Hey all, I fairly recently have put on a set of gut strings on my bass. To tell you a bit of background info, its a 20 yr old knilling- german plywood. surprisingly an incredible sounding bass, at least in my opinion. i have always had an idea of what i want my bass to sound like in my head, and that sound is gut. when i bought this bass, the owner of it gave me a set of gut strings he'd never put on it, and i have just done so recently. They are plain, unwound gut across all four strings, and apparently were purchased when the bass was 20 years ago. my dilemma is that while I absolutle ADORE the g-d-a sounds, the e is dried out, cracking, and just too dead to be usable. oh and i play almost exclusively pizz, old jazz tunes mainly, with some occasinal acoustic rock type stuff, if that matters.

So my question for my fellow Tbers is this- what would be the best match to that traditional, thumpy unwound gut sound the other 3 strings have? I have no idea what to consider for the low e. I would like something with relatively low tension to match the other strings and have similar sonic characteristics.

Suggestions?
Thanks

Bobby King · #2 02-07-2010, 10:44 PM

Very few players who use gut will use a plain gut E and not many use a plain A either. Too much thud and not enough clear pitch. More typically, gut sets will have a gut-core/roundwound steel E&A. (although some basses can sound good with a plain A) You could get a wound gut E. The best brand is Gamut but they are very expensive. Lenzner, Efrano or LaBella would be more affordable.

Many who love gut also use synthetic alternatives for the E and/or A. An Evah Pirazzi , Super Sensitive Sensicore or Velvet Garbo E all would work well.

thedreaded6 · #3 02-07-2010, 10:53 PM

gamut seems to be a little pricey for me.. and a wound gut e sounds fine to me- is there a large difference in tone or string tension from the unwound gut higher strings? As i said, i am happy with my A string, i just need to replace the E. What would you recommend as the best match from the wound gut makers?

tito mangialajo · #4 02-08-2010, 06:32 AM

I play gut G and D (Aquila) with Velvet Garbo A and E and for me the match is OK.
Hope this helps.
Tito.

Mark Perna · #5 02-08-2010, 09:06 AM

One thing for the Gamut E that makes it marginally more affordable is Dan Larson's rewinding service. If (or rather when) the windings go bad, he'll rewind it for $50. I've it done for my wound A and E and it works great and saves you from having to buy a new string. You can go a long time with one string this way so in the long run, the Gamut might actually cost less. I don't think any other string company does this.

Garbo E is relatively cheap in comparison to the Gamut and it sounds great. It is also pretty close to the same tension. It might be a little too defined and focused in comparison the the plain A though. I use one with a Gamut wound A and it is a great match. It is also much more stable tuning-wise than the wound gut.

mark

Bobby King · #6 02-08-2010, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedreaded6

gamut seems to be a little pricey for me.. and a wound gut e sounds fine to me- is there a large difference in tone or string tension from the unwound gut higher strings? As i said, i am happy with my A string, i just need to replace the E. What would you recommend as the best match from the wound gut makers?

I think that you'll find a wound E to match just fine with the plain A in terms of tension and tone. The tone will have a little more brightness, at least initially, but the winding is what gives the string more focus. Be warned, however, that even wound gut Es can be problematic -- thumpy and indistinct. It really can depend on the bass and the string. Buying a good quality string increases the chances of clear tone.

Many people find that the gut sound and effect comes more from the D&G than the E&A, so it's very common to use non-gut strings on the bottom. Even a well-worn steel string like Spirocore can sound good with gut upper strings, but a better bet for a new string would be one of the ones mentioned above -- Evah, Garbo, Sensicore. Still, there are purists that want a real gut core. As for the cheaper ones, probably Lenzner is as good as any, but Gamut is definitely superior.

thedreaded6 · #7 02-08-2010, 11:22 AM

how much would a velvet garbo e cost? i take it that aside from gamut, it is the best match to plain gut strings?

Peck_Time · #8 02-08-2010, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedreaded6

how much would a velvet garbo e cost? i take it that aside from gamut, it is the best match to plain gut strings?

It depends on your bass, I had good luck with Spiro mittels on the E (and A), with gut G and D. The Spiros blended well and gave me a reliable tuning reference. Plus they're cheap and readily available. They also firmed up the feel of the bass.

thedreaded6 · #9 02-08-2010, 11:54 AM

firmed up? i love the low tension feel of the gut strings, and it sounds like the garbo e string is the closest ill get to that? what is the difference in price for the garbo and the spiro mittel?

Mark Perna · #10 02-08-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedreaded6

how much would a velvet garbo e cost? i take it that aside from gamut, it is the best match to plain gut strings?

$73 US from Quinn Violins (http://www.quinnviolins.com).

I've found it to be a good match as others have. This whole string thing (like pickups) is really a "you gotta try it for yourself" situation though. We can offer advice and help you narrow down your choices but you really have to plunk the cash down and try stuff. What works for me, might not work for you. I have two primary basses and what works on one usually doesn't on the other and that's with the same player.

With that in mind, you probably won't regret buying a Garbo E. It'll have close to the same tension as your other gut strings but it will be a bit more focused than the A and it will have a tiny bit of growl that the A won't have at all. I love mine. I used to use a Gamut wound E on my main bass and I put a Garbo E on and I'm probably never going back to the Gamut. The Garbo sounds great, matches the wound A and plain gut D and G beautifully in terms of sound and feel and is very stable tuning-wise. While the Gamut wound A goes in and out of tune with even slight temperature changes, the Garbo E is rock solid.

mark

Mark Perna · #11 02-08-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedreaded6

firmed up? i love the low tension feel of the gut strings, and it sounds like the garbo e string is the closest ill get to that? what is the difference in price for the garbo and the spiro mittel?

Mittels cost less ($50 at Quinn) and will last forever but it is a MUCH higher tension string and it will sound much more focused than the other strings and will have lots of growl. It's a great string and I use Mittels on my travel bass but I tried them matched with guts and I didn't like the sound or the feel. I found the transition from gut to steel to be a bit jarring in terms of sound, feel, effort needed to play the string, and apparent volume of the strings. Plus all of the extra tension changed the way the bass sounded although that might not be a big problem with a plywood.

Other guys have used Mittels successfully with gut (Charlie Haden uses Golden Spiral D/G matched with Spiro Mittel E/A, Mr. Peck who posted above, Uncletoad has written books on TB about his experiences with gut matched with Spiros) but I hated it. Once again, it is plunk your dough down and see if it works on your bass.

mark

Peck_Time · #12 02-08-2010, 10:23 PM

PS- The best prices on Velvets are found at LNRmusic.com

Mark Perna · #13 02-09-2010, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peck_Time

PS- The best prices on Velvets are found at LNRmusic.com

Thanks. They're $10 cheaper per string at LNR. Wow.

mark

Gearhead43 · #14 02-09-2010, 07:45 AM

LNR does have the best price - but be prepared to wait a while for your order. It took him almost 4 weeks to get my order out to me. No huge deal, but FYI. He is a busy guy and leaves his business on "auto-pilot" while he is away some times.

I got the Garbo Light E&A to go with my gut D&G and it is by FAR the best match-up I have found (outside of wound gut). The Garbos are a little bright at first, but mellow out over a couple weeks of play. They sound great on my bass now and have the playing feel and response of gut, plus the big fat fundamental and kick like guts. They stay in tune better than any wound gut string though, which is very nice.

I have tried ALOT of nylon-core E&As and never quite liked them, but these silk-core Garbos are a different animal - very cool strings. Something about the natural fiber core makes all the difference, IMO.

One of these days when I hit the Lotto I am going to try a whole set of Gamuts though. I gotta stay beer-budget for now though.

Bobby King · #15 02-09-2010, 10:20 AM

I've been back to using steel strings recently, but one of the best strings I found to use with gut on top was Super Sensitive Sensicore. These have a perlon core, they've been around for a while, and they're not particularly expensive. At the recommendation of Nashville bassist Dave Roe, I gave them a try and I really liked them. So I keep a set of gut and Sensicore in my drawer if I need them. They haven't seemed to be that popular but I like them better than Evahs, Obligatos, Innovations and other synthetic core strings, at least for the E&A.

thedreaded6 · #16 02-10-2010, 11:46 AM

thanks. sounds like the garbo e is the way to go- or first thing to try at least. haha. however, reading on the velvet strings website i see they mentions that you should not install single strings, but only a complete set as they require uniform tensions to work properly. now i know that this is sort of a basic principle, but is the garbo string somehow more subjected to this? or are they just trying to sell the set?