String reccommendation needed! Help!

[Dfunkman]

Hey y'all,
Sorry to clutter this forum with one more plea for string advice. I've read through some of the older threads on the matter and am just overwhelmed with the amount of information so I'm hoping that somebody more knowledgeable than I (And who's spent more money on strings than I) is willing to listen to my particular situation and throw some specific recommendations my way:

I play a 3/4 carved German bass that I bought new in college about 10 years ago. I'm primarily a jazz/pizz guy. But I'm trying to work on my arco soloing and I'm also finding my double bass (both pizz and arco) creeping into my original rock band's material. I also have aspirations of getting serious about tenor clef and digging into the bach cello suites. Eventually. But more for my own edification and sense of personal accomplishment than a desire to perform them for an audience.

What strings I've played already: I played Helicores all through college and for most of the time since graduation. I never changed them as often as I should've. (In ten years, I've put 3 sets of strings on my bass.) The Helicores were ok for me, but only ok. Decent pizz sound, decent sustain, ok arco playability. Just kind of average all around. (to my admittedly non-connoisseur ears and fingers...) For the past year I've been playing on Spirocores. I like the sound a little better than the Helicores. They sound fatter to me, with a bit more growl, which I like. But they are noticeably harder to play, especially arco. I dunno if it's just because I don't practice as much as I did in school but these strings feel stiff, tense and are hard to start with my bow. I tire noticeably faster from playing these strings than I did with the Helicores.

Fast-forward to the present- The tech who works on my bass (who also happens to play bass for the Atlanta Symphony) agreed that the Spirocores are hard to play and have a harsh arco sound. He recommended trying the Pirastro Original Flexocors, saying they'd make a good choice for all-round playing. (He also specifically recommended against the regular Flexocors.) He said it's what he and a lot of his symphony colleagues use.

I need to order a bunch of sundries for my band anyway. (cables, strings, sticks, picks, etc, etc, etc...) Based on the above, anybody have any string recommendations? Should I try the Original Flexocors? I need something that's good for probably a 65/35 ratio of pizz-to-arco and 90/10 ratio of amplified-to-acoustic playing. (I use an Underwood pickup and an Aguilar ag500-212c combo, if that makes a difference. I know, I need to get a DG Realist pickup eventually.) I listened to the strings on the hervejeanne.de matrix and I liked the sound of the Pirastro Jazzers as well. Nice attack, very focused sound. Good sustain. But not gratingly bright in the upper register. Anybody know how easy they are to play compared to what I've already tried? Or how they sound arco? Would anyone recommend them over the Original Flexocors? I noticed they're both rope core strings. Are they significantly different? To put it in perspective, I haven't noticed much difference among different stainless steel strings for my electric basses. (other than gauge, obviously.) I've been using DR lo-riders for the past year and like them more for their reliability and consistency than for anything that differentiates them tonally from any other stainless string.

So, umm, help? Please?

[TroyK]

Jazzers are good strings. I never had arco trouble with them and they sound like they could be a good choice for you, erring on the pizz side. They're not known as better than Spirocore arco strings, but I got along fine with them. I also get along well arco and pizz on Spirocore Weichs. You might consider them, you were likely using Mittel gauge, which are great strings, will wear you out a little faster if you're not playing a lot and may be tougher to bow. Jazzers are sort of in between.

The Original Flexicores (a.k.a. Flexicore '92s) are beautiful strings and just about my favorite all metal strings to the the touch. They are primarly arco strings, but I loved them for pizz...until I got with a band in a club, then they were tough to cut through with. It can be okay, but it depends on what you're going for. The Underwood pickup might help, actually. Bright pickup, darker strings. Could be worth a try, you'd like them for the cello suites, pizz could go either way. Most everyone ends up with a heavier E string with that set, for some reason, it's just a weak string in the bunch, either go up a gauge for that one string or try a Permenant, Spirocore or your other favorite E.

Permanents are nice, but similar in gauge and effort to the Spirocores you're using. More arco friendly and still very good pizz strings.

Evah Pirazzis are getting very popular for both, but most people who complain about working too hard, didn't get along with the regular gauge. There is a weich gauge now that I haven't tried yet, but read that thread through and see if maybe it sounds like the right choice for you.

There are about a billion other choices, but no clearly right one. Which Helicores were you using? There are 3 varieties each in multiple gauges. For my money, they are all a bit medicore, but some are more popular than others and it does come down to preference.

Hope something in there helps.

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by TroyK

The Original Flexicores (a.k.a. Flexicore '92s)

Nada.
Original Flexocors are Original Flexocors.
The (regular) Flexocors are the ones nicknamed as Flexocor '92, since they were launched that year.

HTH,
François

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by TroyK

The Original Flexicores (a.k.a. Flexicore '92s) are beautiful strings and just about my favorite all metal strings to the the touch. They are primarly arco strings, but I loved them for pizz...until I got with a band in a club, then they were tough to cut through with.

My understanding is that Original Flexocor are the purple silk strings that are significantly thicker in gage and different than The Flexocor "92" which have Ruby silks and are the current "Flexocor". They come in several different gages whereas the Original Flex are one size only. I believe that is what the instructor is suggesting.

While I don't want to argue with an orchestral teacher at all I would suggest his recommendation may not be as useful as you'd like given how you describe your playing.

While they are outstanding arco strings the Original Flex (purple silk) left me in pain before the second set when I tried to use them on a pizz gig. IMO they are not as pizz friendly as even the Flexocor "92" Stark.

The Flex 92 Stark are my favorite arco string followed by the Original Flatchromes and Belcantos. The Stark Flex have a great pizz sound but are slow off the hand and on a gig can feel really really sluggish into the third set. I like the D/G paired with Spirocores and use that from time to time but in the end those arco strings kill me for all night hard hitting pizz gigs.

What you are asking for doesn't yet exist. It is what lots of us around here want however. A string that can pizz like a Spirocore and bow like a Flexocor isn't made yet.

So what next for you? I dunno.

You're going to probably have to try a bunch of stuff. Try getting some used stuff off the board here for cheap so you aren't killing yourself on dough.

If you like really light stuff try Weich Spirocores and really give them time to wear in. You may want to consider mixed sets like Spiro E/A and Belcanto D/G or Flatchrom Steel G or something.

Corelli's might be something you like too. I never have but they are a popular crossover string.

Evah Pirrazzi or Obligato or .....you get the idea. Nobody can answer that question for you.

Like the rest of us trying to find that sweet spot you'll have to read the threads and spend a bunch of money.

Don't throw out those Spirocores though and don't sell them. I'd wager you'll end up back there in the end anyhow.

[Dfunkman]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

While I don't want to argue with an orchestral teacher at all

He's not my teacher. Just the guy who does maintenance work on my instrument. So feel free to contradict all you like. He's never seen or heard me play for more than a couple minutes. So feel free to contradict all you like since he's got about as little info on the subject as anyone.

[Dfunkman]

Originally Posted by TroyK

you were likely using Mittel gauge,

Yes, the Spirocores are Mittels and the Helicores are Hybrid/Medium

[Dfunkman]

Thanks to everyone for your support and advice! I'll comment and answer on more specific stuff soon. Right now, I need to run out to teach!

[Co.]

So you need strings that don't give trouble practicing arco in thumb position and work well in rock band but you don't like Spiro Mittels. Hm.....

I think Spiros are the best choice, because they do bow well, once they are a couple of months old and should work in any pizz context, so you might try the weich gauge.

EVAHs are a nice, darker sounding alternative, but are similar tension as Mittels so you might also try the weich gauge.

I personaly wouldn't use Orchestral strings like Flexocore, Permanent, etc. or light gauge strings like Obligatos on the E & A if you need that big pizz sound in a rock band, but on the D & G they can work quite well.

You could keep the Spiros E & A you already have and try Flexocores on top or if you want a more pizz friendly string Obligato, but they are easily overpowered. Don't know how hard you play. Evah weichs or BelCantos or something might be better, but I never tryed them.

[Francois Blais]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

My understanding is that Original Flexocor are the purple silk strings that are significantly thicker in gage and different than The Flexocor "92" which have Ruby silks and are the current "Flexocor". They come in several different gages whereas the Original Flex are one size only.

Exactly!

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by Francois Blais

Nada.
Original Flexocors are Original Flexocors.
The (regular) Flexocors are the ones nicknamed as Flexocor '92, since they were launched that year.

HTH,
François

Whoops, my bad. My comments were intended for the one's we call '92, which have ruby silks. I still can't believe that Pirastro couldn't come up with another name...

[TroyK]

So, whatever you do or don't like about your current Mittel Spirocores, the purple silk Flexicores are exactly opposite. They are very dark and you'll lose the good pizz qualities of the Spiros.

I have never liked Helicore Hybrids, but they do have their supporters. Most people agree that they are not particularly "hybrid". Their arco likely wasn't any better than Spirocores. Helicore Orchestras can work for both, I think better than their hybrids, especially if you can deal with their heavier gauge, but I don't think they are better in that regard to (I'm afraid to type it now...let's just say "Flex '92s").

Consider Pirastro Permenants if you think you can live with similar tension to your current setup. They're solid metal strings that can go both ways. The world of metal wrapped around something not metal, can be an exploration too, but you'll likely have some frustrations and not land on the mark on your first try. If you're looking to not buy twice, I'll endorse Permenants at your current gauge and weich Spirocores down a notch.

There are also Thomastik Superflexibles, which are fine strings but actually up in tension a bit from where you are. If you want to ignore the Toad's advice and dump your Spirocores, I'll swap for a set. Too much tension for me. Mittel Spircores are for me right now too, but I may come back to them at some point. PM me if interested.

[Andrew McGregor]

So, here's one coming from an orchestral player who does a very little pizz but cares about how that works when he does...

If you don't like Spiro Mittels because they're too much work, try Weichs (which despite the myth, are very much bowable... I played them exclusively in the orchestra for about 15 years). Spiro Weichs are, I understand, pretty much the default Jazz string.

More recently as I'm coming back from a few years of not playing, I wanted something lighter and put on a set of Corelli 370M. I might not go back to the Weichs, the Corellis are less work, nicer to bow and play much like the Weichs pizz.

I really like the focussed sound of tungsten strings, I remember way back when 'cellists started using Spiro Wolframs I wanted that sound in a bass string... well, Thomastik never did a bass version of the Wolfram, but the Corelli 370M and 370TX are pretty much that string.

BTW, the trick for bowing Spiro Weichs is to use very slow, intense bow strokes closer to the bridge than you'd dare with most strings.

[TroyK]

Originally Posted by Andrew McGregor

Spiro Weichs are, I understand, pretty much the default Jazz string.

I think that Spirocore Mittels are the default jazz/other string, but I agree with your assessement and advice otherwise. Corellis aside, I just haven't tried them.

[Eric Swanson]

+1 to what Andrew McGregor and Uncletoad said. If you are mostly playing pizz, I would try the Spiro Weichs next. They certainly will sound like garbage right out of the bag, but they mellow and will last forever.

Arco in the upper register is quite piercing and lovely. As Andrew says, they need a slower bow, with more weight, a bit closer to the bridge, but they certainly speak then.

The other good news is that they are relatively inexpensive...

[Uncletoad]

As has been discussed here recently Spirocore Mittels are bowable. They require that your technique be very good to get a good sound. They are unforgiving. Since you already have them on your bass and you are only using one bass for everything I suggest working with them for 6 months to a year and see what you develop.

I really like bowing on Spirocores in spite of the dificulty. When they are broken in you can get both a round fat section sound and a really nasty cutting sound with the same string by varying preasure and bowspeed. As a Rock/Blues string they are unparalelled, and although some feel they are dated they are the defacto Jazz Standard pizz sound.

How bout just practicing more with what you have?

[greitzer]

Dfunkman, I guess this is a question of how badly you really want to experiment with strings (we all fall victim to it at times).

I agree with Uncletoad regarding arco on Spriocore Mittels (which is what I've been using for the past six months or so). For those of us who don't have great arco technique, they are definitely the most unforgiving string -- your technique really has to be right on -- but when you bow them right, they produce a wonderful sound, at least on my bass. I've found that flat bow hair works better for starting these strings than angled bow hair, unlike some other strings I've tried. And for jazz pizz, they are the best string I've tried by far -- the best balance of power, tone and sustain that I've yet found. For cutting through the mix in a rock band, they'd be a good bet, although obviously your pickup is a factor there as well. If you don't want sustain, and you'd rather have that old time dull thud, you can play 'em that way too.

They do require patience. At first, the Spiro G and D were almost unbearably loud and tinny (think Earl Scruggs playing banjo being shot out of a cannon). But over time they have mellowed out and mix well with the E and A and don't sound overly tinny any more.

On the other hand, there is some value in trying other strings just to try them. I used Flex 92's for awhile, and liked the G and D, but found the A and E extremely hard to bow (harder to start than Spiros). Corellis won't produce enough volume for your needs, IMHO. Pirastro Flatchromesteels are a good all purpose string but not really that different from Spiros.

Thomastik Belcanto's have a gorgeous sound, but I'm not sure they'd meet your needs. It's a softer, more plush kind of sound.

I have never tried Jazzers, but if you do decide to try them, post a review and let us know what you think. And good luck...