String tension on Kay bass

Thumpie · #1 02-05-2010, 08:58 AM

Hi again,

I've been messing with my newly acquired '47 Kay C-1.

We've determined that its currently got Spirocores orchestra mediums, which are pretty good for pizz., but I'm starting to notice the fabled scratchiness with arco.

So I'm thinking about auditioning a new set of strings when I take it to my luthier. But reading about these old basses, I see some concern about steel strings on older Kays. And some strings lists the tension in pounds. How much is too much, and which types of strings would be dangerous for my Kay's well-being?

THANKS!

Jake deVilliers · #2 02-05-2010, 09:08 AM

The earlier Kays seem to be happier with a little less tension. Spiro Weichs are excellent, as are the offerings from Innovation and Velvet. If you want to explore the arco world, try Weichs, Innovation Honeys or Velvet Anima -all different, all good.

I'd recommend staying with the Spiro Weichs for a year before playing the field.

Thumpie · #3 02-05-2010, 09:42 AM

So you think the Spiro lights would be less scratchy than these mediums for arco? In my mind, it would seem a small string would be MORE scratchy.

What I really want is Corelli 370s, but with more bottom and "thump"...

Phil Rowan · #4 02-05-2010, 10:33 AM

The thing about Kays (and perhaps laminated basses in general) is that there's kind of built in punchy-ness and thumpy-ness to them. This past summer, I took my bass with me for a traveling theater gig (check out www.mettawee.org for some awesome costumes/puppets), and when I heard that where I'd be there was a big thing with the dew point making soaking everything, I switched the guts on my Kay for a mixed set of steel strings I had laying around. Of course the sound was a little bright at first, but they settled in nicely by the middle of the 5 week residency/tour, and my bass went on with its gutty/punchy/thumpy sound.

I agree with Jake about using Spiro Weichs. They're lower tension and will allow for a higher string height (for added punch), and they sound better the longer you keep them on.

Bill Bentgen · #5 02-05-2010, 10:33 AM

I have Flexocores on my 1950 Kay C-1. I used it in orchestras for a lot of years when I was younger and I got a great sound. I usually take the used Flexocores off of my Pöllmann and put them on the Kay. I use the Kay only for big band and pit work now and should probably change to a string more favorable for pizz.

I've had steel strings on the bass since they became semi-affordable in the late 1960's. There has been no adverse effect on the top.

Bobby King · #6 02-05-2010, 12:11 PM

In my experience, Spiro Weich's bow more easily, and are less scratchy than Mittel. As mentioned, you can keep the action a little higher with Weichs and get a punchier sound for pizz. The thinness does not necessarily make them brighter or scratchier than Mittel, often just the opposite. But you can't dig in as hard on Weichs and they don't produced quite as much volume. If you like the Corellis, you may like Weichs, give them a little time to lose the initial brightness.

Lo-E · #7 02-05-2010, 12:32 PM

My '56 M-1 never minded the tension of steel core strings. I kept it strung up with steel cores for almost 20 years.
Since I play pizz almost exclusively (my arco is AWFUL!) I ended up putting Dominants on there instead about two years ago.

Thumpie · #8 02-05-2010, 01:19 PM

If you like the Corellis, you may like Weichs, give them a little time to lose the initial brightness.

Actually, these Mittlels are completely broken in, as they came on the bass when I bought it. The scratchiness isn't too bad--I'll have to wait to see how bad it is when I use my pick-up...

Thumpie · #9 02-05-2010, 01:31 PM

My '56 M-1 never minded the tension of steel core strings. I kept it strung up with steel cores for almost 20 years.

What I've read is that Kay started to beef up the tops in the '50s after steel strings started becoming popular...

Phil Rowan · #10 02-05-2010, 01:58 PM

My '38 Kay Orch. Model is plenty beefy, top and back.

Jake deVilliers · #11 02-05-2010, 09:33 PM

There's a thread somewhere where MollyKay and I posted the top thicknesses of Kays from 1938 to the sixties (?) and the top thicknesses weren't particularly consistent.

Some comparative measurements from the Kay tops currently gracing the house:

- the original finish 1938 M-1 is .197 at the treble f-hole, 13/64”

- the refinished '39 C-1 is .227, 15/64”

- the sunburst '39 C-1 is .229, 15/64”

- the refinished '50 M-1 is .226. Pretty close really to 15/64”

- the original 1940 O-1 is .248, just about ¼”