Switch to gut!Some questions....

[peri75]

Ok,so eventhough I'm very pleased with my Pirastro Jazzers I am having a great urge to try some gut strings on my bass!
I've read the threads about gut strings and I think I want to give the Pistoy Gamuts a try.They seem to be really expensive but I've read so many good things about them that they seem to be worth the money.I'm not sure though if I should order the light set or the light+ or even the medium.Should I perhaps mix sets?Why would I want to do so?Also does anyone know what is the difference in sound between the copper and silver A and E? I figured I will order them varnished and with the knots tied from reading all the other posts.
I've had no previous experience with gut strings except one time I played Ari Roland's bass in Cyprus,it was a really nice 1/2 size bass he used for travel and he had guts on.He said that he was surprised that I had no experience with guts because I had a nice sound and that maybe I should give them a try.So I think the time has come for me to try guts,I've been wanting to do it for some time but now I can afford it so there you go
A big "thank you" to all of you guys who have commented on your experience with gut strings,there is no way I could have learned so much about them otherwise!!!

[timobee4]

If you come from Pirastro Jazzer you out for a massive shock, I have Gamut on my bass and they will stay probably forever because they so nice to play on but as for me, I had to buy another bass as well to satisfy my need for Spiro Mittels. I love them both but when I only had the one bass with guts I missed the Spiros and the low action. With my two babies, AI combo and DPA I am in heaven, varnished guts are beautiful and last longer, unvarnished guts just sound awesome more succeptable to fraying. Good luck, when you get your gut strings play some Mingus songs, very very nice. T.

[peri75]

Yes,I'm probably in for a shock, I remember that one time that I played on gut strings they had a completely different feel than steel strings( they are also pretty huge!).I didn't really like the feel at that time but I DID like the sound.The Jazzers are kind of killing my left hand right now,I think I need some low tension strings,I'm playing a lot and I begin to feel that my left hand is starting to suffer. That and also, I really really wanna try gut strings,I think i'll dig the sound very much. BUT I do expect to feel a little shocked at first, I'll probably have to change quite a few things in my playing huh? I know i'll loose some chops for a while but I hope that the sound and the projection of the strings will be worth it.
Of course i'll practice like crazy to get my old chops back!!!

[Dilbertisme]

Medium Lyon G, light Pistoy D = nirvana.

[Mark Perna]

Originally Posted by peri75

Yes,I'm probably in for a shock, I remember that one time that I played on gut strings they had a completely different feel than steel strings( they are also pretty huge!).I didn't really like the feel at that time but I DID like the sound.The Jazzers are kind of killing my left hand right now,I think I need some low tension strings,I'm playing a lot and I begin to feel that my left hand is starting to suffer. That and also, I really really wanna try gut strings,I think i'll dig the sound very much. BUT I do expect to feel a little shocked at first, I'll probably have to change quite a few things in my playing huh? I know i'll loose some chops for a while but I hope that the sound and the projection of the strings will be worth it.
Of course i'll practice like crazy to get my old chops back!!!

I switched to gut from Spiro Orchestras about 19 months ago. It took about 2-3 months to get completely comfortable with gut and it required rethinking my approach to the bass. The touch is different due to the spongier feel of the string. You don't have to hit them as hard as with steel. A bunch of my go-to licks and tricks that I had with Spiros didn't work anymore. After a while, I developed a whole new set of tricks and go-to licks that work on gut (and don't work so good on steel). There was an uncomfortable transition period where I didn't have new gut tricks and couldn't use the old steel tricks but i persevered and it all worked out. The secret as you say is practice, practice, practice. When I made the switch, I had the bass in my hands at almost every possible opportunity and it paid off.

mark

[peri75]

Originally Posted by Dilbertisme

Medium Lyon G, light Pistoy D = nirvana.

Could you perhaps comment on the differences between the Lyon and the Pistoy strings?How is the sound different?

[peri75]

Originally Posted by calivox

I switched to gut from Spiro Orchestras about 19 months ago. It took about 2-3 months to get completely comfortable with gut and it required rethinking my approach to the bass. The touch is different due to the spongier feel of the string. You don't have to hit them as hard as with steel. A bunch of my go-to licks and tricks that I had with Spiros didn't work anymore. After a while, I developed a whole new set of tricks and go-to licks that work on gut (and don't work so good on steel). There was an uncomfortable transition period where I didn't have new gut tricks and couldn't use the old steel tricks but i persevered and it all worked out. The secret as you say is practice, practice, practice. When I made the switch, I had the bass in my hands at almost every possible opportunity and it paid off.

mark

Yes, I do plan to do some very serious practice to get comfortable with these strings.And I guess the fact that they sound great can only help,right?Could you please give me some advice concerning the different gauges I can choose from?Why not ,for example,go with the full light or light+ or medium sets?What are the advantages of mixing sets?Thank you!

[Mark Perna]

The Lyon is a more traditional sounding and feeling gut string. The G is amazing sounding. The D is a bit thumpier. The Pistoy G also sounds great but a little more focused. It is more flexible but responds and recovers faster so it is MUCH easier to play fast on. The Pistoy D is a thing of beauty. It sounds very much like the Lyon G but lower in pitch.

If you are going for a traditional Paul Chambers-like sound, get 2 Lyons. If you want a more modern but still unmistakably gut sound go with the Pistoys. Or you can mix and match.

My personal favorite sounding combination is the medium Lyon D and the light Pistoy D. I used this combo for a while. I then switched to a medium Pistoy G while keeping the light Pistoy D. Currently, I'm using a Pistoy G and an Anima D but I'm probably going to put a new Pistoy D on soon.

As for gauges, the thicker the string the fatter the sound. This is good for the G but the D can be indistinct and thumpy. I went with a medium G and it has always worked for me and haven't tried anything else. I tried a medium D first but found the light D to have a lot more focus so I stayed with it. Medium G/Light D is a good place to start but you'll really need to experiment to find what you like.

mark

[peri75]

Originally Posted by calivox

The Lyon is a more traditional sounding and feeling gut string. The G is amazing sounding. The D is a bit thumpier. The Pistoy G also sounds great but a little more focused. It is more flexible but responds and recovers faster so it is MUCH easier to play fast on. The Pistoy D is a thing of beauty. It sounds very much like the Lyon G but lower in pitch.

If you are going for a traditional Paul Chambers-like sound, get 2 Lyons. If you want a more modern but still unmistakably gut sound go with the Pistoys. Or you can mix and match.

My personal favorite sounding combination is the medium Lyon D and the light Pistoy D. I used this combo for a while. I then switched to a medium Pistoy G while keeping the light Pistoy D. Currently, I'm using a Pistoy G and an Anima D but I'm probably going to put a new Pistoy D on soon.

As for gauges, the thicker the string the fatter the sound. This is good for the G but the D can be indistinct and thumpy. I went with a medium G and it has always worked for me and haven't tried anything else. I tried a medium D first but found the light D to have a lot more focus so I stayed with it. Medium G/Light D is a good place to start but you'll really need to experiment to find what you like.

mark

Hey Mark,I really appreciate all the info!What are your thoughts on the E and A strings? I remember from your posts that you couldnt stick with Gamut because the strings would not stay in tune.Well.the weather here in Athens,Greece is generally mild,we do have hot summers but it doesn't really get very cold during the winter and humidity is not really an issue.
Also,did you happen to have any experience with the Carlos Henriquez Chordas?From what I've been reading they sound attractive too!

[Mark Perna]

The E and A wrapped gut strings are amazing. I would love to be able to use them. If your weather is mild in Greece and really it doesn't have to be mild as long as you don't experience extreme changes in temperature and humidity. My buddy Marcus Johnson lives in Hawaii where the humidity is 70+% all of the time and he has no problems with a full gut set. Here in Pittsburgh, it goes from 70+% humidity in the summer to 15% humidity in the winter with a 120 degree F change in temperature. I keep my house at as close to 40% humidity in the winter as possible but when I take the bass out to a gig, it is frequently exposed to 20% humidity and -15 degree F temperatures. Wrapped gut will go drastically sharp under those conditions. I had one gig last winter where the A string went 2 full steps sharp over the course of the evening. I had to keep detuning the string. By the end of the night, I had taken so much tension off of the bass that it sounded like a washtub bass. I knew I had detuned 2 full steps because the next morning after the bass had recovered, I checked the A and it was now an F. You don't have those kinds of problems with Garbos. You don't have that glorious sound either but at least your C on the A string is in the same place all of the time.


I almost tried the Carlos Chordas but I had to order them directly through Pirastro and they wouldn't take credit cards or Paypal. I had to send them a bank transfer and I just never got around to it (and probably never will now). I would have "impulse" bought them if they had made it easy for me. Everyone who has played then loves them so they should certainly be a consideration. The general consensus is they are very old school sounding. Paul Chamber or Mingus strings.

mark

[peri75]

So, after reading a LOT of posts and hearing some soundclips here's what I am thinking:

A)Go with Gamut (Lyon G,Pistoy D) for top strings and two Regular Garbos for bottom.
B)Buy Carlos Henriquez Chorda set.
C)Go with the Velvet Garbos G gut set (this is a set issued by Velvet that has a plain G gut , a light Garbo D, and regular A and E Garbos.

Regarding A) Lots of people in here are praising the Lyon medium G.With my bass having a scale length of 106 cm, this string would equal 25kg of tension for the diameter of 2.10mm that is the size for a medium Lyon G.This sounds just perfect.( Spiro solo tuned to orchestra pitch have 25.4 says the tension chart.Doesn't specify scale lenght though)

Plain gut on the D string could be problematic(lacking definition and "flobby" compared to a great sounding g string) .However there are others who speak highly of the Pistoy Gamut D.(fast string with nice sound).

Going with wrapped gut on the A and E strings means you're taking a risk from what I understand.Seems that gut strings and the stuff they are wrapped in( copper,silver) react in different ways to changes in temperature and humidity,therefore SOME wound gut string in SOME areas of the world tend to have serious tendencies to loose pitch and/or eventually unwind.However, I've read in numerous posts that Pirastro A and E's do not unwind.Is there anyone who had a different experience?
Also some people who have used Gamut for A and E strings did not find the E very defined.For others ,it worked great.
Finally,these strings are more expensive than my other alternatives.

Regarding B: This set goes for 300e according to Pirastro's support service.I read a lot of good things about it.Overall people find it very balanced.Here I should mention that most people agree that a lighter gut D string is likely to sound more articulate and less "flobby" than a thick gut string.The Carlos Henriquez D is lighter than the Gamut's lighter D.I think overall this set would be a pretty "safe" first gut set.No compaints that I remember of about E or A unwinding.

Regarding C:I've e-mailed Velvet and I am waiting for their reply on gauges, tension and price on the G-gut string set. A lot of people in this forum have spoken very highly of the Garbo A and E and many use those two in combination with Gamut plain guts in D and G.
Another positive thing about this set is that it offers a plain gut G. However I haven't read a single comment about this G,anyone out there with some information?
The D string is wrapped silk not gut(as are the A and E strings).I am thinking that it is probably going to have a clearer definition than gut.However,I think I would prefer to have gut on the D string as well.I feel that maybe gut for G is going to sound really good and silk on D is just not going to be able to match up to that.But then again the people at Velvet MAY have suceeded at balancing these two strings in a very nice way.

So these are my thoughts and observations for now.

My goal is to find a gut set that sounds like gut, is not too heavy as far as gauges are concerned,that has low but not super low tension.Being able to have the G string at 6-7mm without buzzing would also be a plus.Also the set should be well balanced all the strings should project in the same manner more or less.
I wouldn't mind retuning a lot for the first month or so but eventually I would expect the strings to settle.I would hate it if a string unwound,this is important for me,I think that would indicate poor craftmanship or quality of materials.(I will,on my part,be very carefull with installation-taking my bass to the luthier to widen the nut and bridge grooves,applying graphite etc).
Finally,I'd rather pay a lot of money than A LOT of money

[Mark Perna]

Gamut has a re-winding service for wrapped gut. If, after a year or so, your A string goes bad (starts buzzing, unwinds etc.), they will rewind the string for $50 (I don't think any other company does that). If it happens soon after you get it, they'll replace it free. I had my A and E rewrapped and I had them back with a week so they have a fast turnaround.

I've tried the Garbo light D and it is a great string. Very gut-like but more focused than even the Gamut Pistoy D. I would seriously consider matching it with a Gamut Pistoy G and Garbo A and E. This is probably your cheapest solution to getting a gut sound with a good set of strings. Velvet also stands by their strings. They'll send you a new one if you have a problem with one.

The thing to consider with gut is if you spend a lot of time in thumb position, it is hard to get that singing, focused sound you get with steel strings. The Garbo light D gets really close without losing that gutty sound. The light Pistoy D also gets close but not as close the Garbo. The Gamut has more bloom to the note--that puffiness in the sound that characterizes the "gut sound". It also has more snappy high end to it. The Garbo has a little more midrange which most gut strings lack.

Of course, all of this is dependent on your bass and playing ability as well.

My advice is if you are going to go with the Velvet solution, buy the A,E and light D strings individually and buy a Gamut Pistoy G (medium). I'm not familiar with the Velvet gut G but I'd bet $100 that it doesn't hold a candle to the Gamut Pistoy G.

mark

[peri75]

Mark, I want to sincerely thank you for all the advice you've given me.
If you ever come to Greece and particularly Athens or the island of Corfu you're my guest.Keep my e-mail,you never know: periklis75@mail.com
When I receive the specs for the Velvets I'll make up my mind for what strings I'm going to order.I want to have as much information on the matter.Thanks again I really-really appreciate all the help.

[peri75]

So I received the reply from Velvet, a very customer friendly reply as well! They sound like they are actually caring for the customer and I really appreciated that kind of attitude.

Thay gave me a very good price on the gamut gut G set. BUT since I haven't read anything about the gamut G gut string I've decided to go with the Pistoy Gamut G string for which I've read a lot of positive comments.
So here is what my new set will be:
Pistoy Gamut G (I've e-mailed Dan to ask for advice on gauge)
Velvet Garbo light D
Velvet Garbo Regular A and E

I will let you guys know what the final price for this set will be as soon as I know.

Also here are the gauges and tension for the Velvet Garbo G gut set.
G: 2.25mm 22.5kg
D: 2.48mm 23.5kg
A: 2.57mm 25 kg
E: 3.08mm 25 kg

Thanks to anyone who has ever posted ANYTHING about gut strings in this forum. I've read almost ALL of them!!

[Mark Perna]

That's going to be a smokin' set. One more tidbit: the strings take a couple of days to settle in particularly the gut G. They'll be a little plastic-y sounding for a day or two. Practice a lot and they will settle in faster. Use the time to adjust your touch to the new tension and feel of the strings.

mark

[JayB]

I tried a otherwise full set of Garbo lights with a Gamut Lyon Medium+ G on my ply, and I thought it was a really nice, playable set with a lot of gut sound. Although the Garbo light d didn't work for me (I missed the feel and sound of gut d for roots music), it was a clear sounding, comfortably sized string that blended great with high end gut.

[Dilbertisme]

Mark is the Gamut guru around here for sure, and it was at his suggestion that I went with the light Pistoy D and medium Lyon G. They've been on the instrument for a couple of weeks now, and they keep getting better and better. Since I have never experienced any other Gamuts, I can't say how, say, a Lyon G compares with a similar Pistoy. But I do know these gut strings come from a different universe than the La Bella plain guts I had on before. There's just no comparison between the quality of their construction, playing feel, and -- of course -- sound.

I'm just a piker who is crazy enough to haul a bass to old-time string-band jams to have fun laying down the old I-V for hours on end, not a bass-playing monster like youze guys. All I can say is these strings let me drive the rhythm with a solid "pop" on the attack that makes me smile like a lunatic. The articulation and dynamic possibilities are just phenomenal. My jam mates seem to like the sound, too, and several people have even asked me if I got a new bass!

Right now I've got regular Garbos on the A/E. They match the Gamuts very well in feel and sound, and I like them better than anything else I've tried. But I live in one of the best climate zones in the lower 48, so I have no excuse; I'm fated to buy a Gamut wrapped A and E as soon as I can come up with the $$$.

Oh, rest assured if you do decide the Gamuts are not for you, you'll have no problem selling them in the classifieds here on TB. Probably be snapped up in minutes.

[peri75]

I should have all the strings of the set shipped to me by the end of the month. I should say here what a super nice guy Nuno from Velvet strings is, he is going to send me the E A and D strings right away,he's sending me a D regular as well as a D light ( the latter in a few days) so I can check both and see what I like best.
He's also sending both D strings( I will ofcourse send back whichever one I choose not to use) FOR FREE .So I'm just going to pay 80e for each of the E and A strings, making it a total of 160e ( +16e for shipping) for the E A and D strings. I can definetely say that as far as custommer support is concerned these guys are BY FAR the best I've ever dealt with.
The whole set ( E A D Gambo, G Gamut) is going to cost me 286e (shipping included) which is a good price I think. Now, I haven't really had much feedback from Dan at Gamut but that's because he's down with the flu. I just estimated the price for the G string based on the Gamut catalogue including shipping rates.
I expect to have the full set in my hands by the end of the month and I will post my first impressions as soon as I get my bass back from the luthier (need to make adjustements on nut and bridge grooves). Can't wait!

[superman]

Just remeber what sounds good on one bass might not sound good on another,these instruments are sure picky about strings,and which ones work,,I have played guts for 25+ years now,,I really dont know any but guts,,I have tried a few different A&Es tring to find some to match plain gut G&D strings,,but with not much luck,,the garbos A is ok,,but the E lacks some ,I have tried Piastro Eudoxas,Olives,,both are fine strings,,but too expensive,,I always go back to round wrapped gut,,but I am having trouble finding some that are big enough for a couple of my basses,,I have 2 bases that really sound best with old new stock wrapped A&Es,,if you put a rewrapped gamut,,or a efrano or what ever these german guts are ,,they were called Gotez back in the late 90s,,they just dont produce like the old heavys,,then again on one of my carved basses the old heavys don't work at all,,
same thing with G&Ds one of my plys will take anything and sound great,,but the other is likeing a lighter G&D,,it really strange, I do hope you find the sound your looking for, but I would suggest buying a set of Chordas,,theyr heavy,,but they are the closest thing to what was the standard set back in the 50s and 60s,,Gamut makes great strings,and will make you any gage you want,, but he always recomends much lighter than anything i have ever used.He canot seem to produce a A&E with the correct size wrap to make the same strings that were the standards back in the day. I have had a set of his mediums and they were like rubber bands,,I could have used the D for a G,and the E for a A, good luck with your search it's a long one and costly when it comes to guts
Kent

[peri75]

Thanx for the advice Kent, well, I guess I'll see how this set works out and take it from there...I was considering the Chordas ( the Carlos Henriquez set) but I 've read too many complaints about wound gut E and A strings. But maybe in the future I will give that a try