Trick to bring out the top end

[stefaniw80401]

Check out these pictures. I'm an arco player. The bottom string is a EP weich C-string on an extension. The top three strings are BC's. Note the G-string is threaded "backwards". This increased the break angle over the bridge in hopes of bringing out the G-string a bit. Also the lower tension of the EP weich 4th string may be contributing to the top-end some. How do the experts analyze this idea? Most everybody is putting a heavier string on the bottom.
- Mark

Two picture limit previous post?

[Jake deVilliers]

So do you think you can hear a difference from that ~1 degree increase in angle on the 'G string? I'm just asking.

[stefaniw80401]

Thanks for the photo merge Francios.
Can I really hear the difference from ~1 degree? I haven't pulled out my protractor, but I'm guessing it might be more than just one degree. My experiment is not scientific because I changed two elements. Here is my evolution:

Jan/2009 - Full set EP regulars
Oct/2009 - EP regular 4th, BC top three
Dec/2010 - Full set EP weich
Jun/2010 - EP weich 4th, BC top three (same old set) now with reverse threaded G-string.

All I can say is that back in October when I had the BC's on, I don't remember the top-end being so responsive as it is now.

I'm guessing what I've done is bias the string tension towards the treble end of things.

[CPike]

I'm compelled to bring up this break angle topic from a few years ago:
ball front vs ball back
but, that discussion only dealt with all strings threaded forward vs backward into the tailpiece, not just one.

That said, just viewing the pics one can see that while the G break angle is indeed increased - the angle of D and A is decreased. Would this not create an uneven tension on the bridge, and of course, affect the tone unevenly? I can hypothesize one step further and suggest that this might also constrict the tailwire's vibrations by twisting the tailpiece along its axis.

Have you tried just using a higher tension G?

Chris

[stefaniw80401]

Yes the tail piece is twisted a bit, and you can see this in the top view picture above. I have tried an olive G on top of EP regulars before, and that sounded somewhat better than the EP G string, but the olive G beats just about every G string anyways.

My "test" here tho is the same G-string (BC) threaded ball facing outward. But I think the lower tension EP weich 4th string might be contributing at least half to my perceived improvement.

I'd like someone else to try this on their bass -- just the G-string tho, and not the lower tension 4th string, and get back to us.

[TroyK]

It's a neat trick. I'm all for these type of experiments. If it works, it works. No need to have us all doing trig to argue the point.

Are you convinced?

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I've done it on the E and noticed an increase in volume.

[JtheJazzMan]

I did it with a whole set of spiro solos, and I noticed a difference.

However, I then got rid of the solid tailpiece all together, put a wire tailpiece on and it REALLY made a difference.

[MIKMAN]

+1!
The Marvin wire tailpiece IMHO improves things dramatically. I think that it eliminates the need for mode matching between fingerboard and wooden tailpiece. Strongly recommended.

[JtheJazzMan]

Originally Posted by MIKMAN

+1!
The Marvin wire tailpiece IMHO improves things dramatically. I think that it eliminates the need for mode matching between fingerboard and wooden tailpiece. Strongly recommended.

Its worth noting though I have had to do a lot of experimenting with muting the afterlengths because if they vibrate out of phase with the string they kill the fundamental frequency badly.

My E and G strings were especially affected.

[Uncletoad]

I read this whole thing twice and I still don't quite understand what you are trying to accomplish that you are missing. What problem are you trying to solve?

[Jake deVilliers]

Originally Posted by stefaniw80401

Yes the tail piece is twisted a bit, and you can see this in the top view picture above. I have tried an olive G on top of EP regulars before, and that sounded somewhat better than the EP G string, but the olive G beats just about every G string anyways.

My "test" here tho is the same G-string (BC) threaded ball facing outward. But I think the lower tension EP weich 4th string might be contributing at least half to my perceived improvement.

I'd like someone else to try this on their bass -- just the G-string tho, and not the lower tension 4th string, and get back to us.

Wouldn't it make more sense to swap out the E string for your previous one to see what results came from the G string move?

[stefaniw80401]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

I read this whole thing twice and I still don't quite understand what you are trying to accomplish that you are missing. What problem are you trying to solve?

Trying to bring out the G-string response. But you know what -- I just put on a Permanent G&D over belcanto A and evah weich extended E and wow -- that's what I'm talking about! I'll be putting on the permanent A and extended-E later. I want a powerful top two string with great dynamic response and a thunderous bottom two. I don't care too much about pizz'ability being primarily arco player.

If the the permanent bottoms end up being too thumpy, I'll pull out my spiro bottoms and call it done. The tricky part though is I don't want the tension of the spiros to offset the beauty of the perms on top.

Notice in our TB string tension chart, permanent string tension profile is opposite spiro.

- Mark

[Uncletoad]

Permanents are great strings.

[Square Bear]

yeah. i was going to suggest you simply try a brighter/stiffer string like permanents, but you beat me to it. you should definitely try a whole set, i really like my E and A too.