UB blacks vs. Innovation rockabilly

kurt · #1 10-06-2008, 04:24 PM

I'm wondering if anyone has tried both of these sets. I currently have the Innovation rockabillys on and quite like them. Nice warm sound, shorter sustain but not too short (I can still get a bit of growl when I want it) and likely the easiest string I have ever tried! I finally feel like I can execute the ideas I have in my head. The things I don't like are the papery sound you get when the string rubs against the board, mostly when doing vibrato, and the Arco response. Do the upton blacks have any advantage? I've heard they are higher tension so might not play as easily and are brighter which I'm not sure I want. Do they bow any better? Does anyone know of any nylon wound strings that bow better? I realise no nylon wound string will bow as good as steel or steel wound but I'm willing to compromise. Thanks.

kurt · #2 10-11-2008, 11:54 AM

Anyone?

ricobasso · #3 10-12-2008, 03:29 AM

I like the Rotosound Superbe G and D. They're great for slap and have a nice soft old fashioned sound pizz. They bow OK too, if you abrade the bowing region (as demonstarated by my classical teacher). On my carved romanian bass they are a bit quiet though if un-amplified. I do some seaside busking in the summer and compared to the banjo and fiddle I feel I could do with a bit more volume. I'm currently using a set of Obligatos and building up my slap strength. They are louder than the Rotosound and the arco sound is be-au-ti-ful... ( when I do it right

)

Bass · #4 10-14-2008, 12:35 PM

Kurt, apparently nobody on Talkbass has tried both strings. Why not ask the same question over at Rockabillybass.com? Better chance that someone there has tried both.

And there's someone there with a "mystery" set of Innovation strings for sale at a reasonable price. Could be Inno RAB with black windings??

For what it's worth, I like the Inno RAB's as well. I'd imagine that UB blacks and Inno RAB use the same tape winding, so I'd guess you'd get the same paper sound. BTW, I don't really notice this, is this an EQ issue perhaps? What pickup are you using? I notice alot more fingerboard noise with the RSII than the Underwood, for example.

I think your chasing a pot of gold looking for a do-it-all string. I'll bet if you find a nylon styring that bows better / no "paper" sound, you'll lose tone, sustain, slapability or whatever.

kurt · #5 10-15-2008, 02:36 PM

I'm hearing the papery sound acoustically so it's not in the pick up. I only hear the sound if i'm using vibrato, no vibrato no papery sound. The Eurosonics I tried were much worse in this aspect and bowed worse. I think the sound comes from the string rubbing against the fingerboard. These are very low tension strings and they are more slippery than steel so there is some side to side motion when vibrato is applied. I realise no one string can do it all, I've tried about 10 different kinds now, I'm just looking for the best compromise. If i only played jazz pizz and arco it wouldn't be so bad but adding slapping to the mix made it a lot harder to find a hybrid. Oh well I gues I'll just have to try them myself!

moles · #6 10-15-2008, 03:27 PM

I don't think you can ever get rid of that sound completely without going with something with a metal outer wrap.

I'm using downtuned Superflexible solo gauge E & A, and plain gut D and G - and it's working pretty alright for a do-all setup.

kurt · #7 10-16-2008, 12:34 AM

The papery sound doesn't really bother me all that much, I'm finding I like these strings for jazz playing too. I like the shorter sustain, It gives you a lot more oomf at the beginning of the note and less mwah which I never really cared for on Upright. Sort of makes me think if you want to sound like Jaco you could just buy a fretless jazz bass.

I've been listening to the liberation music orchestra lately and charlie Haden's tone with guts has been blowing my mind. I had a school bass with guts for a while and never really liked the mixed set with the unwound D and G and silver wound E and A. I don't really care for that unwound gut E either, it's like a centimeter thick and no sustain at all!

I think the RAB's are a pretty good compromise, more sustain than gut, less than steel, and super easy on the hands. I just wish they bowed a bit better, but after getting used to them they're not that bad really. Much better than Eurosonics.

One important lesson I've learned is that no string is going to compensate for technique. I've had Jargars and Evah perrazzi's on my bass which are supposed to be great for bowing and I still got irritated with my technique! I guess I should go back to that old romanian guy for some more lessons!

cbjacobs · #8 03-22-2009, 02:02 PM

I have been playing the UB Blacks for over a year; love the feel and sound. The problem I have found is the bridge tends to move around under them and putting it back right can lead to it falling over.
I would welcome any thoughts or experience.

Jake deVilliers · #9 03-22-2009, 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kurt

I'm wondering if anyone has tried both of these sets. I currently have the Innovation rockabillys on and quite like them. Nice warm sound, shorter sustain but not too short (I can still get a bit of growl when I want it) and likely the easiest string I have ever tried! I finally feel like I can execute the ideas I have in my head. The things I don't like are the papery sound you get when the string rubs against the board, mostly when doing vibrato, and the Arco response. Do the upton blacks have any advantage? I've heard they are higher tension so might not play as easily and are brighter which I'm not sure I want. Do they bow any better? Does anyone know of any nylon wound strings that bow better? I realise no nylon wound string will bow as good as steel or steel wound but I'm willing to compromise. Thanks.

Kurt, both those strings are made by Innovation - the Rock-a-Billy strings are medium tension and the Ultra Blacks are high tension, more like a Spirocore Weich in feel. They are otherwise the same.

Upton no longer carries Innovation: Fretwell Bass is the US distributor and The Bass Spa is the Canadian Innovation String distributor.

Colin at Long & McQuade in Vancouver has expressed an interest in carrying the Rock-a-Billies and the Silver Slaps.

Eric Rene Roy · #10 03-22-2009, 08:18 PM

Just to get the true story out, it is true, we no longer carry them. Gary approached them with the specs he was looking for, and they came forth with a sample that we liked. Gary wanted naming rights and exclusivity...they wouldn't agree and the closest name they would give was UB Blacks (Upton Bass Blacks). Things soured...and they started calling them "Ultra Black" Blacks (a bit redundant, no?). After further souring of the relationship and the introduction of a US middle man, we had enough. We just wont do business with companies like this.

sixandeightstringer · #11 03-27-2009, 10:22 AM

There are other places to get them online too, do a quick Google search...

kurt · #12 03-27-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eroy

Just to get the true story out, it is true, we no longer carry them. Gary approached them with the specs he was looking for, and they came forth with a sample that we liked. Gary wanted naming rights and exclusivity...they wouldn't agree and the closest name they would give was UB Blacks (Upton Bass Blacks). Things soured...and they started calling them "Ultra Black" Blacks (a bit redundant, no?). After further souring of the relationship and the introduction of a US middle man and we had enough. we just wont do business with companies like this.

I'm sorry to hear that, I got 2 sets of Rockabillys and a set of the UB blacks from you. I was wondering why they started calling them Ultra blacks.

kurt · #13 03-27-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbjacobs

I have been playing the UB Blacks for over a year; love the feel and sound. The problem I have found is the bridge tends to move around under them and putting it back right can lead to it falling over.
I would welcome any thoughts or experience.

Interesting. I put some rockabillys on my new Wilfer the other day and for the first couple days you have to keep tuning them up as they stretch out. I was at soundcheck and as I was tuning them up I pushed downward on the bridge lightly with my thumb to counteract the tuning up and the whole thing came crashing down!

I guess the windings are more slippery. Maybe you should put less graphite in the bridge slots? My bass is new and I'm finding the bridge feet are sliding around as well, maybe this adds to the bridge falling down problem? I guess maybe I should rub some Rosin on the top where the feet sit.

kurt · #14 03-27-2009, 05:24 PM

I ended up trying the UB blacks so here are my comparisons if anyone cares.

When I put the Blacks on my first impression was, quite a bit higher tension (maybe like Medium Helicores?) More volume and longer sustain with a more nasally middy kind of sound. I think the rockabillys simulate gut much better but with more sustain, feel is very similar.

They sound and feel fairly decent but it left me wondering whats the point of using nylon strings that sound and feel a lot like steels. The surface feel is a little different than steel, maybe softer on the fingers but there's more friction when you slide up the string.

For bowing I found that the rockabillys are easier and sound a bit better, especially after roughing them up a bit with some sandpaper. Because the windings are a bit slippery the rockabillys work better because the lower tension strings grab better and start a lot quicker.

Slapping is much easier on the rockabillys. The Blacks sounded good but the lower strings especially the E sounded a bit too clacky for my taste. The rockabillys sounded more even across the strings.

I like the rockabillys better for pizz too. They're just so much easier to play and although they're dark sounding I can still get some growl out of them and good articulation. You can get that poppy gut sound a bit and the treble out of the amp doesn't sound as harsh with them. I'm finding I prefer to use high end to hear my intonation than mids.

Having said all that I still think the blacks are a good string, just not what I'm looking for. If you need more acoustic volume you might like them, or if your bass is really dark sounding. Plus my Wilfer has a higher angle across the bridge which makes the tension higher. If you have a bass with a low angle the rockabillys might be too floppy.

Are the rockabillys Innovation's best bowing nylon string? How are the silver slaps for bowing? Are their metal wound sets as low in tension?