Upton Blacks

[hdiddy]

Since I'm back in the strings game again, any opinions on the Upton Blacks out there? I had a Labella tapewound set once. They were fun but a little too rubbery sounding. My teacher is using my old set and I liked the sound he was getting with them on his Juzek. I must admit I do like the aesthetics of black strings. They're too cool.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Since I'm back in the strings game again, any opinions on the Upton Blacks out there? I had a Labella tapewound set once. They were fun but a little too rubbery sounding. My teacher is using my old set and I liked the sound he was getting with them on his Juzek. I must admit I do like the aesthetics of black strings. They're too cool.

On Friday (November 3), I'll be making one of my pilgrimages to Upton. One of my purposes is to play the Blacks. Shoot me a PM after then if I forget to post on this thread.

[jimclark68]

Hey Drurb,

Just a prompt to get you to remember to post about the Blacks - I, too, will be interested in hearing your comments about them, they seem interesting.

Jim

[lowEndRick]

I have Upton Blacks on my Czech plywood for about a month and a half now. I guess you should also know that I am primarily a bluegrass player.

I love these strings. They are super, super comfortable. The tone and volume are excellent and well suited for what I do. And, as mentioned before, they are really cooling looking.

When I was at Upton they played them so I could hear them from the other side. The shop manager played a bit of jazz, blues and rockabilly and they sound fantastic. Really superb for slap. So, take it from where it comes, I think these are excellent strings. YMMV.

[GriffithLea]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

I must admit I do like the aesthetics of black strings. They're too cool.

Let's see - black strings against a black fingerboard in a dark, smoky club where the patrons are consuming alcohol. They'll think you're pulling a Milli Vanilli.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by jimclark68

Hey Drurb,

Just a prompt to get you to remember to post about the Blacks - I, too, will be interested in hearing your comments about them, they seem interesting.

Jim

Will do-- I have an appointment with "Gary's bass" tomorrow. Just as a preamble, I play jazz virtually exclusively and currently use a set of Dominants on a fully-carved. We'll see.

[RareBear]

Originally Posted by GriffithLea

Let's see - black strings against a black fingerboard in a dark, smoky club where the patrons are consuming alcohol. They'll think you're pulling a Milli Vanilli.

[Francois Blais]

I'm quite interested to hear about them either!

[drurb]

Okay, as promised, I made one of my pilgrimages to Upton Bass yesterday and played the Blacks. First, a few qualifications and an explanation of the conditions. I currently own a fully-carved bass (from Upton, not a Hawkes) strung with Dominants (seen here). My string height is about 6-7 mm for the G, progressing to about 9 mm at the E. Gary's bass is a Hawkes carved flat-back (seen here). Gary's string height is substantially greater than mine.

When I refer to the Dominants and the Blacks, respectively, it is important to keep in mind that I am referring to each on the respective basses and setups described above. My perceptions are my own. Given all of this, I leave it to each reader to judge for him/herself the degree to which my experiences can be generalized. So, here goes.

The Blacks had a very powerful, punchy, dark sound. As expected, they did not have the bit of brightness that is characteristic of metal-wound strings like the Dominants. Personally, I would miss that aspect that I find desirable in terms of articulation. For those who lean more toward the gut sound than I do, that lack of brightness would seem to be desirable. Suffice it to say that cutting through the mix in terms of sheer "boom" would be no problem with the Blacks! The one exception was the E string. The Dom E really energizes my own bass. When I hit the open E, the fundamental goes right through the floor and through my body. I did not experience that with the Blacks. Now, even though you should all be taking this with a grain of salt anyway, it is important to mention that we are talking about two different basses with different setups. There is just no way I can tell whether this one exception in terms of power is related to the basses, their setups, or the strings themselves.

As for the feel, the Blacks felt harder under my left-hand fingers than do the Doms. I do not think this was the result of the different string height mentioned earlier because the feeling was evident even in half-position (hello Simandl) on the G. I don't know why this is so as the gauge of the strings did not seem that different than the Doms. There was not, unfortunately, a bass available in the shop strung with Doms so that I could make the comparison regarding gauge directly. The difference in feel was just that-- a difference. The Blacks did not feel uncomfortably hard at all. That is, they are still well within the comfort-zone.

As for the right-hand, the Blacks felt a bit stiffer to me than the Doms. This may have, in fact, been a result of the greater string height described above. According to Jack, who was in the shop at the time, the tension of the Blacks and the Doms is comparable. As those of you who hang out on TB regularly know, tension and perceived stiffness are not one-to-one.

I did not bow the Blacks at all.

So, here's the bottom line. If you are looking for a powerful, bold, "dark" sounding string reminiscent of guts, I think you'd probably really like the Blacks. If you lean toward the brighter Spiro sound, they may not be for you. The Blacks are plenty comfortable to play.

YMMV

[hdiddy]

Oooh. If I weren't into the growly stringy sound, I would be very tempted. At least I won't have any cravings just yet for these. I'll probably eat my own words later. did I say they look really cool?

[uptonbass]

Originally Posted by hdiddy

Oooh. If I weren't into the growly stringy sound, I would be very tempted. At least I won't have any cravings just yet for these. I'll probably eat my own words later. did I say they look really cool?

One thing I have learned with these strings is that they take a whole different approach and concept...this being a good thing. I am not saying that you have to relearn your playing but the do need to be treated with no preconceptions coming from steel. They rely greatley on a good left hand concept, its more than holding the string down... I can get tons of growl out of the string and in contrary to Les I can pull more of that growly sound out of them than Doms. (Thats what I had last on the bass) However I have used both and many more one far too many basses to list Perk of the job!

Les, you should have taken my bass home for a week to try, then that would be quite a review! You really can if you like! (offer stands for any other UB owners)

EDIT: My bad spelling

[drurb]

Originally Posted by uptonbass

One thing I have learned with these strings is that they take a whole different approach and concept...this being a good thing. I am not saying that you have to relearn your playing but the do need to be treated with no preconceptions coming from steel. They rely greatley on a good left hand concept, its more than holding the string down...

I believe that having a good "left hand concept" is of benefit no matter what string you are playing.

Originally Posted by uptonbass

I can get tons of growl out of the string and in contrary to Les I can pull more of that growly sound out of them than Doms.

This is strange. I didn't say a word about growl in my review! It was hdiddy who mentioned growl. That being said, now I will say something about growl. The Doms on my bass produce WAY more growl (if I want them to) than I was able to get from the Blacks on your bass, Gary. Given that I can turn it on and off at will, I must be doing more than just holding the string down with my left hand. Maybe the Blacks on my bass would produce even more growl. Who knows? Different basses and different setups. I doubt that the bit of brightness that I mentioned and that I prefer would change much across basses. That seems to be a characteristic of a steel string.

Originally Posted by uptonbass

Les, you should have taken my bass home for a week to try, then that would be quite a review! You really can if you like! (offer stands for any other UB owners)

Well, that offer wasn't on the table for me on Friday. Gracious as your offer is, I really think there is no substitute for trying both sets on the same bass with the setup optimized for each. As most of us know, some strings seem to work on some basses and not on others. There are physical reasons that seem to account for these differences. A case in point is Obligatos. They sound great on my bass (but not as powerful as the Doms) while others report that they are lifeless on their basses.

Still, when I had Obligatos on my bass and played the Doms on one of the basses in your shop, Gary, I was hooked. It was a sound and a feel that I really liked. When you installed them on my bass that sound and feel were there (only better ).

This is all a matter of personal preference. As I alluded to in my review, I think it is quite likely that the "gut leaning" players among us might just go ga-ga over the Blacks.

Now, if someone would record for us a bass strung with Blacks and that very same bass strung with Doms, or Spiros, or Oblis...

[kwd]

Originally Posted by drurb

....
This is strange. I didn't say a word about growl in my review! It was hdiddy who mentioned growl. That being said, now I will say something about growl. The Doms on my bass produce WAY more growl (if I want them to) than I was able to get from the Blacks on your bass, Gary. Given that I can turn it on and off at will, I must be doing more than just holding the string down with my left hand. Maybe the Blacks on my bass would produce even more growl. Who knows? Different basses and different setups. I doubt that the bit of brightness that I mentioned and that I prefer would change much across basses. That seems to be a characteristic of a steel string.

I think there's a general consensus, if not established truth, in these threads that lower string height gives more growl. The string height difference between your bass and the shop bass probably underscored that.

The paragraph on Upton's web site emphasis that these strings can be bowed. Perhaps someone could comment on the bowed sound. My biggest gripe with Innovation 140Bs was that while bowable, like gut they were hard to bow in thumb position.

[drurb]

Originally Posted by kwd

I think there's a general consensus, if not established truth, in these threads that lower string height gives more growl. The string height difference between your bass and the shop bass probably underscored that.

Thanks for this addition. You are quite correct that this may account for the difference. I did stress over and over that I was dealing with quite different set-ups.

[uptonbass]

Originally Posted by kwd

The paragraph on Upton's web site emphasis that these strings can be bowed. Perhaps someone could comment on the bowed sound. My biggest gripe with Innovation 140Bs was that while bowable, like gut they were hard to bow in thumb position.

Hey you cant have everything On a serious note; jade rosin and black hair have been the best match.

[Aleph5]

How about a direct comparison between these and 7710 LaBellas?

[uptonbass]

You have to call me for that one I can't type all that I have to say especially at 7:00 am.