Varnished Gamut Lyon G & D. What E & A?

[E.P. Miller]

I'm going with gut. And don't bother talking me off of the ledge, I'm too far gone!

But I do need experienced help with the A and E choice.

After a ton of TB research, and thought about recent and past string experiences, I have already narrowed my choices: Innovation and Velvet.

On the Innovation side, I'm looking at either Super Silvers, Super Slaps or Golden Slaps. On the Velvet side, I'm looking at either the Garbo or Garbo lights.

The back story: I've been using Evah Pirazzi medium tension strings for the past several months. The acoustic sound is fabulous and the amplified sound is reasonable. However I dislike the tension. With the new Weich set only being 10% less tension than the medium set, it looks like I have to say goodbye to Evah Pirazzi. The strings are going on my La Scala ply.

Which of the strings I have mentioned above best match the Gamuts in terms of tone? And which match best in terms of tension?

My assumption is that all of the choices I'm looking at are lower tension than the Evah but if I could be mistaken...

[Bobby King]

At your PM request, I'll chime in:

Both Innovation and Velvet are good choices to pair with gut, especially if you're not doing any arco. I have more experience with Velvet than Innovation, and I like the Garbo A and the Anima E. Some folks like the Garbo E but I found it rather large and indistinct sounding, I haven't tried the lights. Another string I tried recently which I like are the Super-Sensitive Sensicores. They match well with guts and are also bowable. All of these strings have tension that is compatible with the Gamuts. These things are a matter of taste. Some folks think nothing but roundwound gut E&As will go with plain gut D&Gs, while others have no problem using Spirocores for the bottom. The ones you're considering are somewhere in the middle. If you like lower tension, I say go with Garbo.

Good luck!

[E.P. Miller]

Unfortunately, I just don't get enough mileage out of wound guts to justify the cost. Hopefully the Velvet or Innovation strings will be the ticket.

[Mark Perna]

I got about 6 months out of my first wound Gamut E and A (they were on and off the bass 2 or 3 times so that may have hastened their need for rewinding; I also didn't use graphite on the nut and bridge early on which may also have had something to do with it). Had them rewound for $50 each (and got 'em back within a week). They've been going strong ever since. I love the sound of the wound E and A and wouldn't even think of matching my D and G with anything else.

mark

[E.P. Miller]

Originally Posted by calivox

I got about 6 months out of my first wound Gamut E and A

Now that's interesting. I admit, my only experience with wound gut E and A strings is an old set of LaBella. Those didn't last long at all.

[bonaventura]

Originally Posted by calivox

I got about 6 months out of my first wound Gamut E and A (they were on and off the bass 2 or 3 times so that may have hastened their need for rewinding; I also didn't use graphite on the nut and bridge early on which may also have had something to do with it). Had them rewound for $50 each (and got 'em back within a week). They've been going strong ever since. I love the sound of the wound E and A and wouldn't even think of matching my D and G with anything else.

mark

Originally Posted by Trix Miller

Now that's interesting. I admit, my only experience with wound gut E and A strings is an old set of LaBella. Those didn't last long at all.

Trix I've been playing a full set of Gamut Lyon mediums, including the copper wound E & A for about 10 months now. No problems. These are great pizz strings. Arco-challenging, I'd say even harder to bow than Velvet Animas. I'm with Mark -- tonewise a perfect match for the D & G. As to durability, I haven't taken them off and they are in great shape still, just nicely mellowed and settled in. I did widen the bridge and nut grooves when I put them on since they are fatter than Pizzicato Bass strings that were on before. And I guess with round wound a good dose of graphite is a must.

What is a good mix for Gamut G & D? I'm not planning to change strings, but if I put on the Pistoy G D & A that are on the shelf, I've been toying with what other E to use -- if I didn't keep the current Gamut. Evah E or Velvet Anima E would be worth trying. I've wanted to try Dominant E with gut. Eudoxa?

Low tension alternatives would include Animas like Bobby mentioned. Also: many folks say the Dominant Solo E & A tuned to orchestra pitch is a good low tension mix for use with gut G & D. Adrian Cho wrote about that years back. Innovations? I don't have experience with them they are supposed to be low tension and nice bluegrass strings. I did try the Eurosound Ultras briefly, a low tension nylon-wrapped steel core and an acceptable match for gut (but bowing them was more than a challenge, they say you can roughen up the nylon wrapper to make them more responsive, but that did not work for me at least).

But I've gotta go practice! Good luck

[Peck_Time]

Trix: Keep the Evah E and A on with the guts at first. I went from all Evahs to gut G and D with Evah E and A, and the E and A really mellowed out tension wise when the guts went on.
Spiros Mittels work too- 90% of the gut sound is in the G and D, and it's handy to have 2 reliable strings to tune to.

[AndreasH]

Trix,

Thank you for the PM. I have not tried any of the Innovation strings but I'm pretty curios about the Honeys (Anyone got an old used set?). Currently I'm using wound gut E+A and plain D+G. I'm not quite sure yet that this is what I'm really looking for soundwise, but I sure do like playing them! I used Garbo E+A for a long time and I kept the E even longer. They blend very well with guts and there was a fine balance between the strings both sound- and tensionwise on my bass. Very comfortable and very LOUD. At one time I used a Gamut G with regular Garbo E+A+D. I didn't get used to the tension skip between the D and G but maybe Garbo lights will feel better. I would love to try Garbo lights aswell

[E.P. Miller]

Originally Posted by Peck_Time

the E and A really mellowed out tension wise when the guts went on

That's something I had not thought of. I may elect to keep the Evah E and A on for a few days to experiment.

But there are other issues that probably can't be rectified...

The Evah is a bit boingy when amplified. And I'm playing amplified quite a bit these days. In addition, after four months of regular playing, the steel winding is coming loose on both the A and the D.

[E.P. Miller]

Originally Posted by bonaventura

Trix I've been playing a full set of Gamut Lyon mediums, including the copper wound E & A for about 10 months now. No problems.

What's you're playing style, Bonaventura? You're the second person who has responded positively about wound guts (presumably the Gamut variety). I may have to put them back on the list...

Originally Posted by bonaventura

... if I put on the Pistoy G D & A that are on the shelf, I've been toying with what other E to use -- if I didn't keep the current Gamut. Evah E or Velvet Anima E would be worth trying...

Since the Pistoy is the lower tension Gamut string, I would think the Evah would be noticeably more tense. Even the new Evah Weich must be significantly more tense than either the Lyon or Pistoy. A few people have reported liking the Anima E quite a lot with the gut G and D.

[Bobby King]

Originally Posted by Trix Miller

A few people have reported liking the Anima E quite a lot with the gut G and D.

My experience was that the Anima A is a little bright next to a gut D and a Garbo A makes a better transition. But I didn't like the Garbo E so much, the Anima E was clearer, and it works next to the Garbo. But you may find that either two Animas or Garbos works on your bass. Anima has a little more tension than Garbo, it's the least noticable on the E though.

One set up I used for a while (back when I had a second bass for arco ) was Anima E, Garbo A&D, plain gut G. This worked very well. For me, plain gut Ds are an iffy proposition because they get progessively thuddier as you go up the neck. The Garbo D was probably the best substitute (non-arco) for a plain gut D that I found.

This is a long road that you're going down , I hope you find something that works for you, it may take some experimenting and $$.

[TPugh]

Originally Posted by Peck_Time

Trix: Keep the Evah E and A on with the guts at first.

+1

Doing this won't cost you a thing. My Cleveland came with Spirocores. When I decided to give gut a try, I installed G and D Gamuts with used Silver Slaps. I assumed the guts would pair better with the Innovations than with Spiros. Tension-wise, they were very close, but I didn't care for that combo. Could have been the strings. Could have been the bass.

I ended up putting the Spiro A and E back on with the Gamuts. You will read mixed reviews about this combo, but I like it, especially as the Spiros age. This will work for me until I have the dough for full guts (or I decide to go back to full Spiros ).

BTW, I don't have any experience with Garbos.

Good luck,
TPugh

[bonaventura]

Originally Posted by Trix Miller

What's you're playing style, Bonaventura? You're the second person who has responded positively about wound guts (presumably the Gamut variety). I may have to put them back on the list...

Who, me? I play mostly jazz with various folks, about 70/30 pizz/arco, and am also in a bluegrass trio and a dixieland sextet. What about you... where are you trying to go with gut?

The wound guts do sound good after they settle in, and the Gamuts are a fine string. Aaand they are low tension, i might add... The pain with wound gut is the darn fluctuations in pitch every time the humidity changes, and I mean like 2% up or down and they react. I got used to that and, to me, it is worth it for that gut sound and playability with or without amp. Plain gut is surprizingly stable, no humidity issues there. But that brings me to why I'm even considering the Evah E...

Originally Posted by Trix Miller

the Pistoy is the lower tension Gamut string, I would think the Evah would be noticeably more tense. Even the new Evah Weich must be significantly more tense than either the Lyon or Pistoy. A few people have reported liking the Anima E quite a lot with the gut G and D.

I think you're probably right about the tension. For me, the Evah tension seemed to relax after a time. Maybe it will work for you too, but it's different for everybody.

But when I suggested Evah E with gut, I wasn't thinking tension, but sound and humidity. At least with a synthetic or steel E string, you would have at least one string that is not going to be affected by humidity changes. Good for tuning. And as for sound, I would try the Evah E again on my gut bass. I had an Evah E on my other, darker sounding steel bass but didn't like the Evah E because it wasn't bright enough. It seemed to me it then that it might work well with gut, but I can't say, I'll have to try it to know.

If tension is your main concern, I can recommend from experience the Anima E. And from what I've heard here on TB, maybe the Dominant Solos tuned down. Please post your impressions.

[Francois Blais]

What about Permanents A & E with gut tops?
To me, the Perms bottom strings are rather slow and dark, something I'd expect from plain gut. (but I may be wrong, of course!)

[chris dammann]

Originally Posted by Bobby King

One set up I used for a while (back when I had a second bass for arco ) was Anima E, Garbo A&D, plain gut G. This worked very well. For me, plain gut Ds are an iffy proposition because they get progessively thuddier as you go up the neck. The Garbo D was probably the best substitute (non-arco) for a plain gut D that I found.

the pistoy D is clear all the way up the neck on my bass. I've been using the Anima A and E, which is a great combination. I can play all the way up the neck on all four strings. My only compliant is the Anima's are a little quieter piz than the gamuts. I actually wish I could get a little more tension on the A and E. The equal tension of the Velvet strings work great as a full set, mixing them with other strings results in diminishing returns in my opinion. I've been thinking of getting the Gamut wrapped A and E but am worried they'll be too thick to make speak beyond the octave harmonics with the bow, which is important to me as a player. The grass is always greener...
It seems like the longer I have the Gamut/Anima mix the more the tension becomes even between the strings. Also the older the anima's get the easier they become to bow. Right now they have a nice mellow rich tone.

[bonaventura]

Originally Posted by Bobby King

... plain gut Ds are an iffy proposition because they get progessively thuddier as you go up the neck.

I can't agree. For me, the Gamut Lyon plain gut D i've been playing for 10 months was thuddy for the first few weeks. It has lost that now, and is not thuddy or thunky or thwappy at all. i guess i've got the gut in my ear too. But now i can play the gut D up into thumb position with a clear sound and defined note. It may not be as focused as a Corelli but it ain't thunky!

Originally Posted by chris dammann

the pistoy D is clear all the way up the neck on my bass. I've been using the Anima A and E, which is a great combination. I can play all the way up the neck on all four strings...

I can and do agree here. That was my experience. Animas with guts is a good mix.

[E.P. Miller]

Originally Posted by bonaventura

... where are you trying to go with gut?

Vintage poof. I'm working with a Jump blues trio and we're going to record in a month. So, needless to say, I have to make a move soon so the strings are settled in before the sessions begin!

While the Evah strings have worked well when recorded in the past, there will probably be bass solos on the new recordings. Even though I'm unamplified in the studio, the more I attack the Evah, the more boingy it gets.

Originally Posted by TPugh

I ended up putting the Spiro A and E back on with the Gamuts. You will read mixed reviews about this combo

Hey, that was the de facto standard gut/steel mix before we had so many choices to play with. When my La Bella G popped off in the middle of the night, I went full Spirocore for close to 13 years. It's only recently that I have become ill with the string bug. Don't worry, I don't blame myself. I blame most of you!

[AndreasH]

Originally Posted by Trix Miller

Vintage poof. I'm working with a Jump blues trio and we're going to record in a month. So, needless to say, I have to make a move soon so the strings are settled in before the sessions begin!

If you're going for a vintage sound I would, again, recommend the Garbos. They have just a little bit more sustain than wound gut and you can really dig in to them. I played Garbos on bottom plain guts on top for about 4 months without amp and always made myself heard.

[MT Spaces]

Trix .... Thanks for the PM .... I just got home from a week-end of bluegrass-jamming in The Woods.

I will have to digest all of the afore-mentioned Advise ..... But for right-now ... I Say ..... The Innov SS A & E didn't work for me sound'n'tension-wise along with Gut G and D. Decent sound but too-much tension difference. Hard to figger-out on-the-fly.

The Velvet Anima / Garbo A and E were The Ticket for me to match-up with guts G and D.

However ..... On one of my Kays for bluegrass and old-timey ..... The Innov SS G and D were (and still-are) a Great Match with Spiro Weich A & E.

I will read-further tomorrow to see if I actually have something-else-useful to offer .

P.S. .. Those Guys ... Bobby King (read everything that Boy has writ) & Chris Dammann ..... Different as they-are ..... From above ..... Listen to Them ..... They know What's-Up !

They always have something useful to say (and Sparse ..... Unlike Me). I sure would like to hear them play-live-someday ..... Their sound-files don't Suck (from what I've heard) .

[bonaventura]

Hey Bob

Great to hear from you. I was hoping you'd chime in. You are liking your new Jakian setup, I take it.

Bobby and Chris said pretty much the exact opposite there, but it's really a matter of taste. I happen to agree with Chris because that's my experience. But you were the Pistoy Man around here, so I'd like to ask you if you found Pistoys clear and focused up the neck or thuddier, just to take a poll (but this is not about Democracy). Btw, do you still have the Pistoys on? And since I forgot what your exact mix is, is it the Anima E and Garbo A you have, or the other way round?

I guess everybody has to make their own experiences. And the fact is, nobody can tell you how any particular string is going to sound on your bass and -- most important -- whether or not you will like it. Everything said here has to be taken with a personalized grain of salt...

That being said, I will stop now. Trix good luck in finding an E and A that works for you in the studio.

Amen

Bill