Weich E with Mittels?

[eadg57]

I recently had an overdue set-up done, and I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner. At the time, my luthier recommended moving from my Weichs up to Mittels, which I did.

Bass sounds better than ever, but the E--not so much. After a few gigs--and close attention to right hand technique-- I actually put the Weich E back on. It sounds and feels balanced with the Mittels above it. The Weich is not huge, but that Mittel E would just not get the bass going.

More practice w/ the Mittel? Try a Stark? Any experience or thoughts to share on this mixed set?

(That "Stark E" thread is interesting, but its hard for me to think that if my bass can't support a Mittel E, it could handle a Stark E.)

[akmusicfreak]

UncleToad strings his Spyros like this.
Thomastic Spirocore, from birth to death.
Sounds like a good alternative to me.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by eadg57

I recently had an overdue set-up done, and I'm kicking myself for not doing it sooner. At the time, my luthier recommended moving from my Weichs up to Mittels, which I did.

Bass sounds better than ever, but the E--not so much. After a few gigs--and close attention to right hand technique-- I actually put the Weich E back on. It sounds and feels balanced with the Mittels above it. The Weich is not huge, but that Mittel E would just not get the bass going.

More practice w/ the Mittel? Try a Stark? Any experience or thoughts to share on this mixed set?

(That "Stark E" thread is interesting, but its hard for me to think that if my bass can't support a Mittel E, it could handle a Stark E.)

So why did they suggest moving to the Mittel over the Weichs?

If it works with the lighter E there is no reason not to use it.

The Stark is a long distance from the Weich. Hard to imagine that if the Mitt doesn't move the bass that going even heavier would.

It could be the soundpost adjustment itsn't just right with the Mitt E and perhaps if it was adjusted properly the Mitt set may work for you better.

I think a conversation with the luthier is more useful than one with us at this juncture.

[JtheJazzMan]

if your putting mittels on the E would be the first one to put on..?

maybe its just my bass but the Mittlel E has far more power, punch, sustain, clarity... everything over the Weich

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by JtheJazzMan

if your putting mittels on the E would be the first one to put on..?

maybe its just my bass but the Mittlel E has far more power, punch, sustain, clarity... everything over the Weich

That's the usual pattern. Makes me wonder if the setup isn't quite there yet.

[eadg57]

Thanks for the replies.

The luthier is happy to take another look--in fact he had recommended stopping by a few times a year (seasonal changes) anyway.

Among the work done, was taking some scoop out of the fingerboard, which added some growl to the tone. If I wanted more of that growl (I do) he thought Mittels would help (and they did).

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by eadg57

Thanks for the replies.

The luthier is happy to take another look--in fact he had recommended stopping by a few times a year (seasonal changes) anyway.

Among the work done, was taking some scoop out of the fingerboard, which added some growl to the tone. If I wanted more of that growl (I do) he thought Mittels would help (and they did).

So part of the choice to move to mittel is based on the need for a bit more string tension on the neck which results in adding some camber to the neck which he removed.

It's a difficult balance though because the tension of the strings most often effects the top and it's movement more than it effects the necks camber. So to add string tension as a way to correct an over flattening of the fingerboard has the added side effect of choking the top on your bass--not what you want.

I suggest, if you like Weichs, to return to them and have the Camber and string height properly set to give you the amount of playability vs. growl you want rather than changing strings to avoid doing additional board planing.

To say it another way; Choose strings because of the way they drive your bass, and how you prefer them to feel. Then have the setup tailored to your playing and those strings. To choose different strings to avoid modifying an existing setup is backwards.

If you like some of what you are getting with the Mittels it's not uncommon to use a Weich G/D/A and Mittel E. It is rare to go the other way. In fact before you go to the luthier you may want to put that combo on the bass and see how it works for you.

[eadg57]

You're quite right. I had put the Weichs back on after months of pointless string changes, always coming back to the purples. Then the epiphany: Dude, its not the strings; its the bass. And the setup made the Weichs sound good. Shoulda left it at that.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by eadg57

You're quite right. I had put the Weichs back on after months of pointless string changes, always coming back to the purples. Then the epiphany: Dude, its not the strings; its the bass. And the setup made the Weichs sound good. Shoulda left it at that.

Yea. Try the Mit E with the Purple A/D/G once for kicks and see if you like it.

[robgrow]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

...Try the Mit E with the Purple A/D/G once for kicks and see if you like it.

+1. A very good combination IME.

It always amazes me how much depends on the bass. On a bass I have on audition currently, medium Spirocores feel almost like Weichs, since the tension is so low. A friend just put a set of Weichs on his very large bass, and it sounds great, since it needed lower tension strings. Medium Spiros had too much tension for that bass.

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by robgrow

On a bass I have on audition currently

Hmmn. Inquiring minds wanna know more.

[bribass]

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Yea. Try the Mit E with the Purple A/D/G once for kicks and see if you like it.

That IS a great combo. Just may be that the added tension of a full set of Mittels chocked the top a bit and when you put on the Weich E the small tension reduction of that string chocked it that much less. So I'm thinkin' maybe the Mitt E, Weich A,D, G combo may be just what the Dr. ordered as far as optimum tension on the top w/ all the benefits and added oomph of the Mittel E that so many of us love.

BG

[eadg57]

Four Weichs. For whatever reason, that Mit E is not happening. But my bass is nicely setup for the Weichs.

[moles]

I was going to post that perhaps the weich E worked better because your bass just liked that slight lessening of tension overall, and that going with the weich ADG and mittel E as someone else suggested might give the same effect. If it didn't work out like that though, and the weich's are working for you then I for one wouldn't question it.

[Bobby King]

I'm having this same issue right now. I have Spiro mittels on my Shen, and they all sound really good but the E, which is more choked sounding. I have used Weichs in the past and the E responded well and sounded good, while the rest were sort of thin sounding compared to the mittels. So why is it a bad idea to use a weich E with mittels?

[Uncletoad]

Originally Posted by Bobby King

So why is it a bad idea to use a weich E with mittels?

It's not a bad idea at all. If it works, go with it.

It's about balance really, on my basses I prefer a pretty out front E string given the weakness of that in most basses. So when I'm looking at the sum of the tensions of all fours strings on the bass I usually try to get the E with the most tension and if I have to lighten up I do so on the D/G. OTOH if I lighten up to far on the top it looses power up there...that kind of thing brought me back to the balanced set of mittels in the end.

[Bobby King]

Thanks Phil. For a while there I had a combo of Sensicores and plain guts on my bass. The Sensicore E sounded great, and the guts sounded good too, but I wasn't getting a lot of volume acoustically from them. (plus the whole bowing issue) The Spiros produce a lot more acoustic volume and sound very good, but that E doesn't speak well on my bass. The G note on the E is particularly choked, but this wasn't the case with the lighter tension Sensicore. So I'm not sure what to do. Otherwise, I prefer the mittel set to weichs on all the other strings.

[Uncletoad]

If you tune the E down to a D or Db you can simulate the tension of the weich and see what happens to the bass. Moreover if that's to much try lowering the string height with mitts. The tension changes somewhat with break angle changes across the bridge. that may be enough.

[eadg57]

In the end, my experience is consistent with Uncle's comments.

The Weich E sounded (and felt) good for my bass because it seems to be one of those instruments that favors lower tension. I was headed in the wrong direction with the Mittels. So I've gone further away from the Mittels, and now have four Spirocore Solos (EADG) which really opened up the sound--clear and rich.

[Uncletoad]

Solos might be a great experiment for you Bobby. Very different sounding spiros that are quieter than mitts but when the string height is up enough to loose their buzz and nasal they can drive a top in a very organic way. Nowhere near loud enough for me but they really bow well.