Troll Microphone

BrandonEssex · #1 09-29-2012, 03:36 AM

Hi, folks. I've been building ribbon mics for upright bass. I started this thread in Amps Mics and Pickups, and have migrated here, so here's a bunch of answers to previous questions, and we can continue here! Pics, video, and audio coming soon, along with a website.

I've been using and tweaking these mics for over a year. I started by hanging an off the shelf inexpensive ribbon mic in the bridge with rubber bands. This was heavy and cumbersome, but with the right goosing it was a really nice sound. I recorded with it, and noticed that the bleed was minimal, so I plugged into my amp (AI Clarus/Wizzy 10) to give it a try. It allowed more gain before feedback than any other mic I've tried. (LDC, SDC, Dynamics of various types.)
Step 2, I disassembled the off the shelf mic, and reassembled it inside a lightweight aluminum mic body that I hacked out with an angle grinder. This was a modest improvement.
Step 3, I bought some components, some aluminum, and some tooling, and started figuring out the details.
Step 4, share.

My observations so far...
Small amps seem to work nicely, as long as volume levels are moderate. I mostly play jazz gigs, so drummers are not playing LOUD, like in rock bands. When you want the acoustic sound of the bass to be a little more full and audible, without changing it, this is a good solution. I've been surprised at how much volume I can get with the amp. As always, the room is an important variable.

Large PA systems seem to work well. SF Yoshi's sounded great, just the mic to the house, and a little in the monitor, no amp on stage. At Oakland Yoshi's I used an amp on stage and sent the mic to FOH. I got to hear another player use one there as well, similar setup, mic to the house, amp on stage. Great sound in the house. This is a very useful technique.

Small PA has been surprising. Clarity, punch, volume to spare for a jazz gig. Each time I've tried this, I end up leaving the amp off altogether. Another version of this that worked very well was to plug the mic into a small amp (AI) and then DI that to the small PA. This is a really good option if the mains are projecting such that they aren't very audible to the players.

Recording is where this came from, and it is a real solution to live recording or limited isolation recording. Bleed happens, but at much lower levels than with other mic choices and techniques. I did this experiment recently. With the mic in the bass, I established a healthy volume level with a small amp, like you might use with a band of reasonable stage volume level. I snapped my fingers in front of the strings, directly in front of the mic. No audible signal. I snapped my fingers behind the strings (this is difficult!) and heard a clear audible snap through the amp. I snapped my fingers 90 deg. off axis, one inch from the mic, no signal. Another good demonstration is to speak into the mic, very close, and spin the mic on it's long axis. It's surprising how little the ribbon "hears" when off axis, even with your lips brushing the mic as you speak. The combination of a relatively low inherent sensitivity, plus nearly complete off axis rejection, makes the figure 8 pattern of a ribbon mic quite controlled in a close micing situation.

As a way to prevent wind damage, I am using both an internal foam windscreen, and an external one. The external one also aids in padding the mic body, so it does not damage the bass or BUMP in the amp, should the mic bump anything a little bit. So far, I've only damaged ribbons not protected by foam (wind, dropping a bare motor against a metal cabinet, etc.)
Phantom power is only a concern if someone is using a patchbay. A trs type connector temporarily cross wires a mic, leading to ribbon stretching if phantom is on at the time of the cross wiring. Typically this is only used in a recording studio, where they (hopefully) know not to do that.
Any active preamp will isolate the mic from phantom, if that is a concern. A friend is having good results with the mic and his Headway pre. On a side note, he has also had success blending the mic with his full circle using the Headway.

Anyone who wants to see pics, PM me your email and I'll send my amateur shots. All the media is still in the works. I'll post here when it's ready, of course!

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #2 09-29-2012, 06:24 AM

Looking forward to seeing pics and hearing samples!

Ryanpet42 · #3 09-30-2012, 04:07 PM

I'm very interested but I'm a broke high school student. Pics and sound please?

shwashwa · #4 10-04-2012, 06:34 AM

pics and details pls

flatback · #5 10-30-2012, 06:04 PM

Hey interested,
I was just down at Gael's shop in Berkeley and he had a bass with the Troll Mic on it and asked him if I could hook up the amp and take a listen. It sounds pretty good. I qualify this because it was not on my bass and I played thru an old contra down firing. (not great for a mic), but it sounded pretty good. I think the DPA prolly gets more gain but it had a really pleasant creamy thunk at the front end. There were some high mids I didnt like much but did I mention it looks really cool? It would sure be fun to try out on a gig....
Of course I was there listening to Gael tell me how bad the situation was with my bass...I always know it's bad when luthiers say,"how attached are you?"

Nathan Levine · #6 11-01-2012, 12:04 AM

I got one in the mail a few weeks ago, but quickly figured out that there didn't seem to be enough gain without my Headway getting really hissy. So I ordered a Fethead and wow! Gain issue solved. Perhaps a little too solved actually. Without the Fethead the DPA definitely has more gain than the Troll. With the Fethead, the Troll might be a bit too hot for using with an amplifier. Should work quite well with FOH applications though.

As for sound, my initial impressions is the sound of the Troll seems to be much warmer than the stark clarity of the DPA. Gonna try recording both microphones together this weekend to see if what I seem to be hearing through the amp is more or less correct. They both sound fantastic IMHO. Just different flavors of fantastic if that makes any sense.

flatback · #7 11-01-2012, 04:11 PM

As for sound, my initial impressions is the sound of the Troll seems to be much warmer than the stark clarity of the DPA.

....yeah I heard some of that, but im not sure it is audible to an audience. I play in places more often then not where coldth rather then warmth makes for being heard and making a mic viable. But I still wanna A/B it and hear your examples. Im interested in the Fethead too.

elizabethlehr · #8 12-10-2012, 05:29 PM

Pics and sound clips would be great! My curiosity is piqued.

Bruce Lindfield · #9 12-23-2012, 05:40 AM

Why is it called a "Troll" - isn't this name likely to put people off? Am I missing something here?

Clarkybass · #10 12-23-2012, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Why is it called a "Troll" - isn't this name likely to put people off? Am I missing something here?

Maybe cos it lives under a bridge?

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #11 12-23-2012, 07:43 AM

Bruce: I think you were missing something there.

Bruce Lindfield · #12 12-23-2012, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarkybass

Maybe cos it lives under a bridge?

Ha - I never got that - good joke.

But I think that most people who see this on the net, will think of a Troll as the person who tries to mess with your head and wind you up...

BrandonEssex · #13 03-19-2013, 12:29 PM

Hi all! A bit of an update here....

1. Work on the website has resumed. One of my main collaborators on website content had a medical issue that popped up literally while the troll demo videos were on his monitor for editing. He's all better now, but that episode slowed things down for a while. So, I apologize for the lack of content posted here, but it's simply not quite ready yet!

2. It turns out that the Headway is a poor choice for use with this mic. It dose not provide enough gain without noise. The FEThead by Triton is a much better solution. I have a small stock of these now, and I'm offering them for the same price they sell for elsewhere, $100. For those who are fans of Acoustic Image, their integrated preamp (on those models with an XLR combo input) is a great choice. I use my Clarus constantly, and I love it. I also recently acquired a QSC KW122. While this doesn't provide much in the way of EQ, the onboard preamp has plenty of gain, and with the speaker on a stand, up away from the body of the bass, the usable gain before feedback is rather astounding. Also, that box sounds CRAZY good. I'd venture to guess that the smaller version, the K10, would make a superb choice for a small dedicated amp for bass. Once again, put it on a stand, as the geometry is very much in your favor with this setup. The speaker is closer to your ear, therefore easier to hear, and further from the bass, therefore less prone to feedback.

3. I have been back in mad scientist mode. I created a contact mic using a ribbon motor. While it's not quite ready for others to try just yet, my trials so far have been VERY encouraging. I've used it on a handful of gigs so far, and it sounds awesome! Imagine a contact mic that is very easy to install on any bass, sounds much like an air coupled ribbon mic, and further reduces issues with bleed and feedback. I call it a contact mic rather then a pickup due to the interface. It will by necessity use an XLR connector, and because it is a ribbon mic, the output gain is low. The impedance is suitable for mic preamps and mixing consoles, not bass amps. Once the bugs are out, it should also match well with the FEThead. I'll of course post here again when this is ready for the market.

4. Yes, it is called the Troll because it hangs out under the bridge. Does anyone else like the movie "Troll Hunter" as much as I do? Such a guilty pleasure....

powerbass · #14 03-20-2013, 07:40 PM

Where's the website?

BrandonEssex · #15 03-24-2013, 06:37 PM

Work on the website is chugging along. I have a couple videos to share in the meantime.
http://youtu.be/nTEJ0vndNO0
http://youtu.be/cK7M5ePIta4

Ed Fuqua · #16 03-24-2013, 08:01 PM

Oche Chornya!

salcott · #17 03-25-2013, 10:22 AM

Interesting. About 20-25 years ago, the great engineer David Baker hung a KM84 in the bridge of my bass using two rubber bands in an X pattern. It sounded great. A good idea stays around.

youngheo · #18 03-25-2013, 02:49 PM

So how do i buy this mic?

BrandonEssex · #19 03-25-2013, 03:45 PM

Hi again! Here's an audio sample of the Troll. Just a teaser, more on the upcoming website!
The setup for the recording: Pirastro Evah Pirazzi light gauge strings > “between the wars” Juzek > Troll Ribbon Microphone > Triton FEThead > Apogee Duet > Macbook Pro > Garage Band at 44.1 kHz 16 bit. The signal is unprocessed, and the only adjustment was to normalize the gain. MP3 file at 320 kbps VBR.