Advice on amplifying bluegrass

[HLJ]

Here's another idea from a Lynch...! This is what I've done. It's a "P-Bass" set of pickups mounted on the neck of my DB. It's an active pup with a battery under the neck.
I use this through an ART personal monitor and then into a Whirlwind DI hotbox. The level is whatever you want. This sort of setup will give you more clean bass than you'll ever need. I use small phones similar to Ipod phones for a monitor. The ART personal monitor has a monitor feed so that you can blend, at your position, what you hear between your bass and the other members of the band. All you need is a 1/4" monitor return to your position. Mics suck. I've used mics for years and rarely had a good night with them once on stage...and the same is true for some highly paid bands. The Gibson Brother's most excellent bass player was lost in the mix at Denton Farm Park this year. That sucked too. Anyway. Whenever you're playing in an event that's so noisy that you can't hear your bass, the 'non-electron' sort won't mind some electronic sound reinforcement. They can't hear either. The front row can hear you but it's lost on the house.
Another benefit of an EB styled pickup is that most house sound systems can accommodate the frequency with less feedback. Mic'd DB's will distort most smallish sound systems. Rarely will a house soundguy take the time to EQ each band member in an acoustic bluegrass band. More likely soundguy doesn't know Bo about non-electric bands. Spend a couple of hours between feedback and not hearing the rest of the band...or yourself.
If you play with a drummer, you've got to have some sort of monitor and EB pickup. That usually goes with a big on-stage amp too. Most bluegrass bands cannot live with a bass amp behind them. Huge distraction. Most bluegrass bands don't have drummers either.
Alas, I whine. Plug it in! You may lose a few geezers on the front row, but you'll make most of the audience happier with loud music. If you're playing in a bar, I'll garuntee loud is better!
JR

[wallawallabob]

I went with the K&K piezo and pre-amp. I installed it last weekend and ran it through our system at church - it sounded way better than the mic. In fact, it pretty much sounded like my normal acoustic, only louder.

[wallawallabob]

JR
What is the rope around the bridge for?

[Alan Tompkins]

+1 on the Full Circle. Have them on both of my basses, a '61 Kay and a New Standard Cleveland. I run it into the LR Baggs Para-Acoustic DI then straight out to the house for FOH (if there are decent speakers out there that will reproduce the bass) and use one of my small Markbass amps (the 2x5, 1x12, or 1x15, depending on venue size) and have at least 10x more sound capability than I need. It's a lot of electron stuff for bluegrass, but my band loves the sound/tone and the fact that I'm completely self-contained - just walk my stuff on stage, plug it in, and go.

Alan

[bassistjoe93]

When I play upright, we usually just wrap an SM57 in foam and stuff it right under the tail piece and go direct through the PA... Works well for me. Setup is quick and painless, but a pickup and amp would probably suit your needs better. Dunno much on pickups for uprights but I'd say you need at least a good 1x15 amp. That's just my opinion though.

[martinc]

I may be in the minority but......I have never used an amp on stage in more than 12 years of playing live.
I use a bass pickup (K&K Bass Max for many years and now a Schatten RB-1) into a pre-amp (mostly the LR Baggs Paracoustic DI)...and then straight into the PA. I have always been able to hear the band and my bass through the mains. I have a minimum amount of bass in the monitors.
This is a simple set-up and you don't have to lug a bass amp around.
Never had a complaint from any band member ever that can't hear the bass...no matter whether they used a single mic or individual mics. Or whether it was a large PA or a small one.
Try this first and if you don't like it then use an amp as a stage monitor.

[pjwalsh]

I like the K&K Bassmax to Pure Preamp into a decent bass amp and cab for stage monitor with a direct box to the PA for the house. No feedback issues as long as the bass cab is not pointed directly at the vocal/instrument mics.

We've used the single condenser mic with poor results, switched to a single directional mic to tame feedback and have added two flanking sm58's

[bassfox]

Full circle all the way. With stiff foam between the tailpiece and body along with a velcro strap across the strings behind the bridge to help with feedback.

The Full Circle is a good representation of your bass's natural sound and it can get rock band loud.

A would suggest a good pre-amp with a phase switch Raven Labs Professional Blender if you can find one used.

[superman]

A pbass pick up,,well thats not any good unless you use all steel strings,Bluegrass players strive for a big dark sound produced by guts,nylon,or a number of new synthetic strings,,steels useually have too much sustain and growl.
also a 15"speaker is going to feedback with a upright,,a 2x10 or 12" combo will work fine,,for a true "bluegrass" situation where all of the instuments are being micd a mic on the bass is the best way to amplify the bass,,as long as you have a decent mic,,,a sure 57 or 58 is "not" a bass mic,,a d112 is a bass drum mic but works very good to pick up the low freq of a upright bass. I have always had great luck by useing a mic and just a GK112 for "me" a monitor,,I place the amp right behind where I stand ,I just adjust it to "my" likeing.I always just put a mic on a stand infront of the bass f hole,,after all if you can mic all the other instuments why not the bass??
Now in cases where you might play with a one mic situation "no monitors" I might not use the amp,,just a mic,depending on the venue and the main mic being used,,if its a good quality mic and all the players understand how to "work" a single mic you might just play through it.
For loud situations like a club with a country band I have never used anything more than one side of a Underwood pickup and a good amp . the only trouble you might have is feedback from a 15",speaker,,,I use either 2x10,,or 4x10,,and can hang with the loudest band we have on Broadway here in Nashv.but that wouldnt really fall under the "bluegrass" banner.The Underwood pickup is still one of the best I have ever heard,,I ony use one side which is a trick that Billy Linneman showed me years ago,,Billy used this pickup pluged into a SVT4 ampeg and was the staff bass player at the Opry for 40 years,,and if anyone ever heard it back when he was there it sounded great,,the Opry house is a 4000 person venue, I have not tried the full Circle due to the fact I dont use adjusters,,I compaired a bass one time that had adjusters then switched bridges to a regular non adj bridge and it lost a lot of sound.

[bobsax]

Originally Posted by bassistjoe93

When I play upright, we usually just wrap an SM57 in foam and stuff it right under the tail piece and go direct through the PA... Works well for me. Setup is quick and painless, but a pickup and amp would probably suit your needs better. Dunno much on pickups for uprights but I'd say you need at least a good 1x15 amp. That's just my opinion though.

This seems like the best option for a beginner jamming with other beginners and semi-pros.
Does anybody want to comment on the prices of the sugested pick-ups and accessories in this thread?

[neddyrow]

Our band does the following:

Guitar - pickup and direct box - BBE
Banjo - pickup and direct box - fishman
Mandolin - sm57
Fiddle - sm57
Harmonica - sm57
Bass - k&k pickup into gk amp direct out to board
Vocals - sm 58s

Yes I have a 16-channel board

This works really well for us and play some decent size shows this way. We even have monitors and no real feedback issues unless we really try to push it.

Hope that helps

[MR PC]

have you tried miking the gk instead of taking the direct out? the gk di is pretty harsh sounding for acoustic bass, ime.

[neddyrow]

I agree with the harshness of the gk going into the board. Luckily most of the shows we play I can get by without even running the gk into the board. When I do go into the board, I keep it pretty low just to help round out the mix. I also have compression on my board which seems to help as well.

[MR PC]

that's a great amp, i've owned a couple. miking it delivers the attack and timing of your notes in sync with your playing, ime.....the di is too fast....i was using an expensive tube di in front of the gk for that reason, but miking it is a trick i learned from Todd Phillips. for bluegrass/old time now i use either a mic stuffed under the tail, or a single Underwood with the tube di

[J. Montgomery]

For the past 10yr I've been amplifying my Engenlhardt bass with a Fishman BP-100 pickup, Fishman Bass Blender (I used to use a small mic in addition to the pickup), and my GK MB150 amp. For outdoor gigs that need more volume I use a 4x10 cabinet (Carvin).

I've mostly played jazz combos (with drummers) though lately I've been playing some bluegrass as well. My bass and equipment are modest, but its served me well for years.

[MR PC]

if i brought a 410 to a bluegrass/old time gig these days, the leader of the band would give me the stink-eye for sure!

[J. Montgomery]

lol, yeah a 4x10 does seem odd. Though I've yet to play with a bluegrass group with a sound system large enough to handle bass in an outdoor setting (vineyards in this area). It beats everyone saying "I can't hear the bass, turn up your amp" and then blowing the internal speaker in my GK (which I've done more times than I care to remember).

[bass_snake]

I usually just used either my K&K pick up or my Taco Man Pick Up and ran it through a friends' GK combo. I usually don't have to use a preamp.

Richie

[wallawallabob]

Well, here's what I wound up with: K&K bassmax pickup and preamp, Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0 10T. The Shuttle has a preamp built in, so I don't really need the K&K preamp when I use that amp, but it is handy when I go to a PA.

Instead of mounting the preamp on the bass, I carry it on my belt for 2 reasons: First -there is a vibration inside of the unit that no amount of foam would stop, which was being transmitted to the amp. Isolating it by putting it on my belt cured it. (There is a rattle emminating from the pickup plug also, but I haven't tracked it down yet). Second is I can mute the bass when needed - and a side benefit is that I can read the dials!

Over all, I am very happy with the sound, and by adjusting my attack I can overcome the vibration issue - until I figure out how to solve it, that is, because I LIKE to attack!