Making cheap bass sound better.

Tulsa Tom · #1 06-19-2011, 06:23 PM

OK, I DID buy a CCB on Craigslist.

Not bad for $400. My first few Bluegrass jams were uneventful, until i played a real gig. It had no punch, and I had to play hard with a mic in the tailpiece, so now have a nice blood blister after 2 sets. The strings are for bowing, not BG music
My question(s).
Would changing to a louder string for BG music help that much?
Should the sound post or bridge be upgraded?
Or......? Suggestions?

Tom in Tulsa

bass_snake · #2 06-19-2011, 09:13 PM

Do you know what kind of strings you got on? A good set up would help.

good luck,

Friedrich

Steve Killingsworth · #3 06-20-2011, 05:40 AM

Keep in mind that much of the sound comes from those things sprouting from your shoulders. Have you ever had any lessons with a legitimate teacher who actually knows proper technique? You would probably be suprised at the sound you can pull out of a marginal instrument with good technique.

As to the bass, remember the old saying that you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. I agree that a proper set up and decent strings will make some difference on most basses, but there is only so much you can do for a CCB. It reminds me of the episode of mythbusters where they proved that it is possible to polish . . . uhhhhhh-solid animal waste. In the end, it did shine but it was still crap. I don't say this to offend but to note that there are limits to what you can expect from a $400 bass.

A set up and good set of strings will probably set you back at least $4-500 bucks. You might be better served by applying that money toward upgrading. Craigslist and the classifieds here on TB often list Engelhardts and shens for $700-1200 dollars.

Tulsa Tom · #4 06-20-2011, 07:09 AM

The former owner put Prelude strings on it, as his son was in orchestra. He bowed it for me and it sounded great. The live plucked volume is what concerns me.

Steve, thanks for your input, as you have verified what I have been hearing from others. I have a real good Gibson F5 mandolin, and I give the same advice to lesser quality mandolins.

I was hoping there are other CCB owners who have had some success in upgrading their basses.

Dilbertisme · #5 06-20-2011, 08:34 AM

If you're going to play it, CCB or not, bite the bullet and get it professionally set up and put a set of more pizzicato-friendly strings on it. NunoA has a full set of Garbos in the Classifieds for $180 -- great place to start. Obbligatos are another popular option. If the action is horrifically high, as it seems to be on most inexpensive basses as shipped, and you attempt to really pull sound out of the thing in long jam sessions, you are going to hurt yourself, and I don't mean just blood blisters. (Though they are bad enough!) With a decent setup and strings, you'll at least enable the instrument to "be all it can be."

hdiddy · #6 06-20-2011, 03:11 PM

Want a CCB to sound better? Sell it, take the money and buy a better bass. Really, it's the least hassle and money burning option otherwise it's more likely you're just trying to polish a turd. Money spent on a setup is better if you went and bought an Englehardt or similar from a qualified seller/luther.

There are some really awesome CCB horror stories around.

Whats your cheap bass horror story?

pickerpete · #7 06-23-2011, 04:28 AM

[quote=hdiddy;11070832]Want a CCB to sound better? Sell it, take the money and buy a better bass. Really, it's the least hassle and money burning option otherwise it's more likely you're just trying to polish a turd. Money spent on a setup is better if you went and bought an Englehardt or similar from a qualified seller/luther.

Sad but true.

A bad bass will make your musical development impossible and cost you much in terms of satisfaction and money down the road.

sondrelj · #8 10-07-2011, 12:59 PM

Although I would agree that a better quality bass is always better, there are some things you can do. When I started out, I bought a second hand Chinese plywood bass (named Ruth by the way. I still don't know the name of the maker). The setup consisted of two pairs of mismached strings and a thin, sorry excuse for a bridge. I got new strings (spirocore) and a new bridge, which worked wonders for the sound. I've since invested in a new, cork lined end pin, and now have a useable bass. For jazz or classical one could wish for a more distinct tone, but for bluegrass, it works quite well. I have even recorded with it (can be heard here: brokelandbullets.com).

In short, if you don't aspire to the highest standards of tone, you can get by with a cheap bass. However, it always pays off to invest in proper quality gear. If you're going to become a great player, get a new bass. If you only want to have fun and play, you might consider a new set up.

wallawallabob · #9 10-11-2011, 05:32 PM

I've put some lipstick on my pig (ccb) and it sounds pretty good. Great, no. Corelli strings, moved the soundpost, raised/lowered strings, moved the bridge - all myself with household tools by the trial and error method. I'm not sure I would have done these things with an expensive bass, but with this one? What the heck! I've put a K&K pickup/preamp on it now, which actually sounds really good thru our good PA system (I've never tried it through a bass guitar amp). I suppose if the fingerboard needed dressing (no buzzing or dead spots, yet) I would farm that out. I don't worry much about where I play, how I haul it, or the weather since it can easily be replaced if it gets too beat up.

That being said - I agree with the others above - a better bass will always sound better. But for me, my ccb is working just dandy and people are happy when I show up, not wishing I would go on home!

shwashwa · #10 10-11-2011, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdiddy

otherwise it's more likely you're just trying to polish a turd.

Trying to Ruthlessly Create and Do Good. turd polish

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI

kne_austin · #11 10-22-2011, 02:54 PM

ok guys, sorry to sound like a newb, but i can't find what this acronym stands for anywhere on the web (tho' i can tell by context it's prob derisive, & maybe one of the C's is for 'chinese'?)

W.T.F. is C.C.B.? thx!

bssist · #12 10-22-2011, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kne_austin

ok guys, sorry to sound like a newb, but i can't find what this acronym stands for anywhere on the web (tho' i can tell by context it's prob derisive, & maybe one of the C's is for 'chinese'?)

W.T.F. is C.C.B.? thx!

C C B = cheap chinese bass

kne_austin · #13 10-22-2011, 03:50 PM

ahh, yes. thx bssist. the ccb's i've played on have all been horrible nasty thangs..

bssist · #14 10-22-2011, 05:01 PM

I actually have a ccb that I still like quite well. If you don't have the $$ all at once, a solid ccb can be upgraded slowly over time.

I spent more on strings and setup than I did on the bass originally but it now sounds quite nice. I recently played a 40's Kay and it didn't have the tone or response that my ccb has. Although, for what I've put into it over time I could have had a Christopher or Thompson, or a nice used Framus or Englehardt. The fact was that I didn't have the $$ when I needed the bass for a job, so I did the best I could.

If you want to go at it slowly I would get strings right off the bat. The other things I switched out early on were the bridge and the tailpiece. I think I got lucky with the instrument, I have had it for over 5 years now and it is still solid. I have heard that some ccb implode within a year or two. Your luthier may be able to peek at it and tell you how long it might last in your local conditions.

I would keep an eye out for a better quality used bass with lots of mojo. That's going to be my next purchase. I want one like my buddy recently picked up for $500 - SmileyBass

bssist · #15 10-22-2011, 05:34 PM

Here is a quick sample I just recorded on my 1/2 CCB. It might not be the best but neither is the player so maybe if I get better I"ll get another bass. My father always told me, "if you can make a lousy instrument sound good, you will sound good no matter what you play" I've worked with guys through the years who actually did make garbage instruments sound like high-end works or art, so I tend to believe it's true.

fingerbun · #16 10-22-2011, 06:25 PM

I have a CCB for jazz gigs and a BEEB (Bloody Expensive European Bass) for orchestral.

Comments:

The CCB has only failed me once, and it was my own fault...dropped it onto concrete and the neck broke. Was a cheap repair...would not have been a cheap repair on the good bass.
The BEEB has greater tone and projection, but to some extent I can compensate for this when amplifying the CCB.
The differences in tone show up most when playing arco. I can live with the CCB in a pizz gig, though the BEEB is nicer.
I don't have a pickup on the BEEB, but I wonder if it's greater volume is a product of greater resonance that would cause worse feedback in amplified setting.
Plywood is more stable if you are doing stuff like gigging in hot sun.

So as a bluegrass player I would suggest you persist with the CCB for a bit.

Spend the money to get it set up by a knowledgable luthier and do change the strings...not sure what to recommend for bluegrass. I use Helicore Hybrids. Lots of people will recommend Thomastiks which is what my CCB came with but I think the Helicores have more punch and warmth.

bssist · #17 10-22-2011, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingerbun

The CCB has only failed me once, and it was my own fault...dropped it onto concrete and the neck broke.

OUCH !!

Strings -
I have spirocore mitteln on there now. That's what the recording is. Previously I had helicore pizz medium, which worked very well for me. I am going for more of a jazz feel (sound).

fingerbun · #18 10-22-2011, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bssist

OUCH !!

Strings -
I have spirocore mitteln on there now. That's what the recording is. Previously I had helicore pizz medium, which worked very well for me. I am going for more of a jazz feel (sound).

I picked up the Helicore Hybrids after admiring Christian McBride's tone.

The d'Addario website says pizz strings will have more brightness and sustain, arco strings will have more warmth, and hybrids are in the middle. I think that's exactly what I hear. The "lesser sustain" of the hybrids is "greater punch" to my ear.

Remus_Redbone · #19 10-24-2011, 05:24 AM

I can't say they will help a "CCB" (I had to read a while to get this one), but I've advised everyone who has an older Kay or King to go with a low tension string like gut or spring for guts. They have the bluegrass tone, they're easier on the hands, and they are easier on the bass itself. Old (pre '57/'58) Kays were NOT designed for steel string tension. Your CCB probably was, but it may benefit in tone from low tension strings. I play innovation super silvers which are one of several synthetic imitation of gut strings. If you do any bowing, forget this post, but otherwise I would check out the nylon / perlon core family.