Speed in bluegrass music

[M Ramsey]

Afternoon all,

Here's a link to another thread, here on Talkbass, that began talking about players playing too fast. Now it has sort of morphed into speed of bluegrass tunes.

Why do guys with chops insist on playing so damn fast?

Add your examples, please.

[Steve Killingsworth]

It does seem like a lot of the folks I have picked with try to insert as many notes into a break as possible. It reminds me of those guys on the Tokyo subway who cram every possible person onto the train before it leaves. I remember taking a break in a jam one time and starting to mix in some half notes and rests. A mandolin player thought I had lost it, jumped in, and finished the break on top of me.


My thing is that there seem to be three speeds on bluegrass instrumentals - slow, fast, and warp speed. I wish there were more medium-speed tunes to explore.

[Nohandles]

It is always refreshing when you find a jam where they play songs at a tempo close to the original recording. I came from Old Time and they have the same problems with speed there but most are played are a decent speed. At festivals when the Warp drive is inguaged in a jam I usually just go and find another to play in.

[alanbarnosky]

I think what is such a huge draw factor about bluegrass is the fact that some tunes are so lively and energetic. Its got the enrgy of punk rock, but came around 50 years earlier. When this is done well, its incredible. But now I think people are milking it, and when fast is all you hear, it really starts to detract from the whole energy that fast bluegrass can carry.

I love fun fast tunes (though the lyrics are often incredibly depressing... but thats another thread). But there is a fine line between a good amount and overdoing it.. something that many groups, especially the younger ones, need to learn.

[littlebill]

Very few can play at tempos like a Ricky Skaggs and Kentucky Thunder so don't play it any faster than the group can play. There is nothing worse than someone that can't keep up and ends up slowing the song down, that is where the bass player has to grit his teeth and hold the line. My old band had a banjo player that way and if we wanted to do certain songs like Skaggs' Black Eyed Suzie or Shady Grove, we just had to do it at the speed he could keep up with even though the rest of us could do it.

[Nohandles]

I don't think it is ever a bad thing when all the member but one can play at any speed. They can drag that member up and make them a better player if they want to.
I have been the draging member and it was hard but I would say a good experience and catapulted me to a hight plateau very quickly. To many bands never get of the ground because of impatients of the good players. Don't any of you take offence to this it was only a recount of severaly personal experiences. Doug

[Gufenov]

Slower + RIGHT > Faster + WRONG. What do you guys do when someone speeds up on a break? How do you get the band back to the proper tempo?

[M Ramsey]

Originally Posted by Gufenov

Slower + RIGHT > Faster + WRONG. What do you guys do when someone speeds up on a break? How do you get the band back to the proper tempo?

If it's a band it's not such a bad thing for the time to fluctuate. It's also less noticable when it IS a band. We are talking about real people playing real music. You can listen to the live Alison Krauss recordings and hear time fluctuate, but the band plays together so well, you can't hardly hear it unless you check it with a metronome.

I stive to lock into the rhythm with the guitar player and be strong (together) and try to state the beat a bit more loudly when I know a certain player in our band is apt to speed. Most times, the one speeding will come back to us in the timing. That's what CAN happen in a rehearsed band.

A jam can be altogether different.

[littlebill]

Originally Posted by Nohandles

I don't think it is ever a bad thing when all the member but one can play at any speed. They can drag that member up and make them a better player if they want to.
I have been the draging member and it was hard but I would say a good experience and catapulted me to a hight plateau very quickly. To many bands never get of the ground because of impatients of the good players. Don't any of you take offence to this it was only a recount of severaly personal experiences. Doug

No offense taken, there is always another side to any discussion. It would seem that you were fortunate to pick with people willing to work with you. I get the feeling they saw the potential and the willingness you have to be a better player. Our problem was the experienced banjo player just didn't want to practice on his own, rather taking all of our time while he tried to make it work.
M Ramsey's comment on fluctuation is right, if you listen, many bands vary though usually only a beat or two and you never notice, that comes from the familiarity and tightness that comes from practice and practice is what separates bands from jams. I play as much as possible in both situations and can't tell you how many times I've heard people say how much they depend on the bass for keeping the time. Just stop playing some time and see how fast the rest can fall apart!