12+ fret buzz on E & A

[bassalo]

Recently purchased a new EBMM SR4 HH and I love it. The factory settings for string height are documented at 3/32" or 2.4mm, but mine were a smidge higher. I like them to be even lower so I adjusted the truss rod (wheel clockwise) to lower the action. Worked like a champ, the action is right where I want it, but now I get fret buzzing on the E & A strings, 7th fret and up on the E, 12 and up on the A However I only get it when I pluck with medium or greater force - not when I play softly and I do not hear the buzzing through the amp. Is it just normal to have some fret buzz? Or is this merely a function of something still persisting out of balance? Seems like all the basses I've had, there's always been some buzzing on the higher frets, especially the D string or lower.

Also, I adjusted the string height with the bridge saddles and that didn't help either. Meaning I raised the E up about 3/64ths and it still buzzes. And the neck is pretty straight - I don't like much bow.




Note: I searched extensively and didn't find anything that was an apples to apples comparison.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by bassalo

The factory settings for string height are documented at 3/32" or 2.4mm, but mine were a smidge higher. I like them to be even lower so I adjusted the truss rod (wheel clockwise) to lower the action.

Precisely the wrong thing to do to lower the string height. Adjust the saddles to change the string height. Use the truss rod to adjust the relief in the neck. They are not interchangeable operations.

[bassalo]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

Precisely the wrong thing to do to lower the string height. Adjust the saddles to change the string height. Use the truss rod to adjust the relief in the neck. They are not interchangeable operations.

I tend to agree with you. I took the aforementioned approach based on Ernie Ball's website:

"First of all - almost all of the adjustments to string height can be made with the truss rod. Turn clockwise to raise the fretboard (resulting in lower action), counter clockwise to lower it. The factory string height for our basses is 3/32" or 2.4mm between the bottom of the string to the top of the fret on both the E and G strings at the 12th fret. The G string can be slightly lower due to the fact that it is the smallest string. Of course, tightening or loosening the trussrod affects the bow of the neck, which is how desired action is generally best achieved."

I have the relief on the neck set nicely, but I'm going very slowly and giving it a day or so to set. I'm thinking I just need to give her some time as she was shipped half way across country in frigid temps and now has nestled in nicely to a cozy new home. Saddle adjust is next.

[debassr]

With the strings on and tuned, take a straightedge like a level or ruler and lay it on edge on top of the fretboard to check the relief. If there's a gap of more than an 1/8" or so on top of the middle frets, you've got too much relief. Loosen the strings a bit, tighten the truss rod a 1/4 turn, retune, and wait a day. Check again. Rinse and repeat.

Once you've got the relief within the target zone (I like my relief at about 1/16"), check strings for buzzing. Adjust your saddle height upwards until buzzing is gone. Check intonation at 12th fret for all strings, and adjust as needed. Voila! Low action, good relief, and proper string height is yours. All of this assumes that you don't have any high frets.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by bassalo

Recently purchased a new EBMM SR4 HH and I love it. The factory settings for string height are documented at 3/32" or 2.4mm, but mine were a smidge higher. I like them to be even lower so I adjusted the truss rod (wheel clockwise) to lower the action. Worked like a champ, the action is right where I want it, but now I get fret buzzing on the E & A strings, 7th fret and up on the E, 12 and up on the A However I only get it when I pluck with medium or greater force - not when I play softly and I do not hear the buzzing through the amp. Is it just normal to have some fret buzz? Or is this merely a function of something still persisting out of balance? Seems like all the basses I've had, there's always been some buzzing on the higher frets, especially the D string or lower.

Also, I adjusted the string height with the bridge saddles and that didn't help either. Meaning I raised the E up about 3/64ths and it still buzzes. And the neck is pretty straight - I don't like much bow.

You're going to have to put some relief back in the neck, and deal with the string height issue by raising/lowering the saddles.
Sorry you don't like much bow, but laws of physics are mighty unforgiving.


For ultra-low action, a serious fret leveling is called for; this will include a setup.

[debassr]

Originally Posted by JLS

For ultra-low action, a serious fret leveling is called for; this will include a setup.

This is probably not necessary on a new EBMM unless QA has gone downhill fairly recently.

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by bassalo

I tend to agree with you. I took the aforementioned approach based on Ernie Ball's website:

"First of all - almost all of the adjustments to string height can be made with the truss rod. Turn clockwise to raise the fretboard (resulting in lower action), counter clockwise to lower it. The factory string height for our basses is 3/32" or 2.4mm between the bottom of the string to the top of the fret on both the E and G strings at the 12th fret. The G string can be slightly lower due to the fact that it is the smallest string. Of course, tightening or loosening the trussrod affects the bow of the neck, which is how desired action is generally best achieved."

I entirely disagree with this approach. And I find it a little disturbing that this advice appears on the EB site.

The question remains - how do you sort out the good from the not-so-good or even bad advice on the net? It's all there. Usually it's best to "consider the source", but in this case.....????

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

I entirely disagree with this approach. And I find it a little disturbing that this advice appears on the EB site.

T

+1 This is terrible setup advice. Adjust the neck for proper relief, adjust saddles for proper string height, set intonation, set pickup height. Now you only need to make a seasonal truss rod adjustment. btw, I have never heard a luthier or qualified tech give the advice that is on the EB site!

[JLS]

Originally Posted by debassr

This is probably not necessary on a new EBMM unless QA has gone downhill fairly recently.

I find this to be so, on almost any factory made bass. Benjamin?

[GianGian]

Originally Posted by JLS

I find this to be so, on almost any factory made bass. Benjamin?

Agreed...instruments don't come ready to play from the factory.

[debassr]

Originally Posted by GianGian

Agreed...instruments don't come ready to play from the factory.

Normally I would agree, but this is a EBMM we're talking about here, not a Rondo or Squier - it's bound to be much closer to correct coming straight out of the factory.

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by bassalo

I tend to agree with you. I took the aforementioned approach based on Ernie Ball's website:

"First of all - almost all of the adjustments to string height can be made with the truss rod. Turn clockwise to raise the fretboard (resulting in lower action), counter clockwise to lower it. The factory string height for our basses is 3/32" or 2.4mm between the bottom of the string to the top of the fret on both the E and G strings at the 12th fret. The G string can be slightly lower due to the fact that it is the smallest string. Of course, tightening or loosening the trussrod affects the bow of the neck, which is how desired action is generally best achieved."

This is actually terrible advice. The truss rod really only affects the bow of the neck in the middle - the ends are almost completely unaffected. Every adjustment made has an affect on the other, so there's no one-tweak method that works like EB is suggesting.

Originally Posted by debassr

This is probably not necessary on a new EBMM unless QA has gone downhill fairly recently.

Originally Posted by JLS

I find this to be so, on almost any factory made bass. Benjamin?

Originally Posted by debassr

Normally I would agree, but this is a EBMM we're talking about here, not a Rondo or Squier - it's bound to be much closer to correct coming straight out of the factory.

It's true - it's impossible for a company as sizable as EBMM to do every fret job perfect. It takes about 2-3 hours to do a proper fret level and setup - if EBMM, or any other sizable company did this, they'd put themselves out of business in a hurry.

The way I look at instrument purchasing is this: buy what you like, making sure that the neck isn't completely warped, twisted, or worse, and that the truss rod works - and then budget about $250 or so to get a proper fret level done.

[bassalo]

Update with results. Thanks to TBer Turnaround with some credible advice via PM. I carefully set the neck relief with my old automotive feeler gauge set (forgot I even had em), somewhere around .6 mm (use capo on 1st fret, depress last fret and measure around 7-9th frets). It took about 2 days and roughly 1/8 turn per day (I tend to be over cautious with items I value - I'm sort of mental about things like this) and the relief was right about where I like it as far as action goes. At this point, there was still some fret buzz on the E and A string, however, the string height had lowered below my goal of 5/64" after tweaking the relief. I raised the strings about 1.5 turns on the saddle pins, rechecked tuning. Intonation went a little flat, so I adjusted the saddles and there it was. Like a light ascended from the Heavens, I had precise string action, neck relief and perfect intonation with zero fret buzz. It has never been this easy! I've practiced setting up on my SX several times, but it always felt like trial and error game. Using the feeler gauges really cuts down on guessing and makes the process seem a whole lot more precise and objective.

Lessons learned:

There is a TON of garbage advice for this topic on the web. There are folks over on the EBMM forums vehemently defending and even promoting the idea of only adjusting the neck relief to gain desired action.

Don't always believe the manufacturer

Check out the sticky on setups for this forum - very valuable links

It's very rewarding to be able to setup your own instrument to your exact liking!

Happy Holidays folks!

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by bassalo

Lessons learned:

There is a TON of garbage advice for this topic on the web. There are folks over on the EBMM forums vehemently defending and even promoting the idea of only adjusting the neck relief to gain desired action.

Wait... what? There's bad information on the intarwebz?! You don't say!

[bassalo]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

Wait... what? There's bad information on the intarwebz?! You don't say!

YEAH, HA?

[JLS]

"It's very rewarding to be able to setup your own instrument to your exact liking! "

Ain't it, though? Bravo!

[Diogenes]

Originally Posted by bassalo

...There is a TON of garbage advice for this topic on the web...

...There are folks over on the EBMM forums vehemently defending and even promoting the idea of only adjusting the neck relief to gain desired action...

... Don't always believe the manufacturer...

Very good to hear that you can now do a setup on your bass. Next lesson, fretwork and leveling.

[JLS]

We really need an icon for, "can of worms"...

[Benjamin Strange]

Originally Posted by JLS

We really need an icon for, "can of worms"...

Oh dear, sweet baby jebus... no.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by Benjamin Strange

Oh dear, sweet baby jebus... no.

Hee hee--thanks!