3 bolt vs. 4 bolt neck plate

[JohnDavisNYC]

hey guys,

i hope this is the right forum for this question... i play a '77 jazz bass, and (obviously) it has the 3 bolt neck plate. this bass is a serious player bass, i will never get rid of it (i.e. resale is not an issue at all), so i want to make any mods to it that will improve the sound and stability of the bass...

i haven't had any real stability issues with the neck (except one bad flight with Air France where the bass got a real good toss and the neck was a bit crooked when i got it from baggage claim... i have since purchased an even better flight case), but i am willing to put a 4 bolt neck plate on if there are significant benefits to the sound and/or structural integrity of the instrument.

thanks in advance!

cheers,
john

[202dy]

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

hey guys,

i hope this is the right forum for this question... i play a '77 jazz bass, and (obviously) it has the 3 bolt neck plate. this bass is a serious player bass, i will never get rid of it (i.e. resale is not an issue at all), so i want to make any mods to it that will improve the sound and stability of the bass...

i haven't had any real stability issues with the neck (except one bad flight with Air France where the bass got a real good toss and the neck was a bit crooked when i got it from baggage claim... i have since purchased an even better flight case), but i am willing to put a 4 bolt neck plate on if there are significant benefits to the sound and/or structural integrity of the instrument.

thanks in advance!

cheers,
john

There are percieved benefits. But there is no structural benefit. The three bolt necks get blamed for neck movement, but it is not the mounting system that is to blame. As Fender moved through the seventies their quality control was not all it could have been. The neck pockets on many of the guitars from the era simply were oversized. This is the reason that so many of the guitars were plagued with neck movement. If you think about it, Leo went on to form G&L and used the three bolt design to great advantage.

The design is sound. The milling was not. If it is stable, don't fix it.

[lug]

Originally Posted by JohnDavisNYC

hey guys, i haven't had any real stability issues with the neck

cheers,
john

You've answered your own question right there.

[Giraffe]

Originally Posted by 202dy

...The three bolt necks get blamed for neck movement, but it is not the mounting system that is to blame. As Fender moved through the seventies their quality control was not all it could have been. The neck pockets on many of the guitars from the era simply were oversized. This is the reason that so many of the guitars were plagued with neck movement...The design is sound. The milling was not. If it is stable, don't fix it.

This problem was greatly exacerbated when guys chose to use the "tilt-neck" feature, because neck-body contact was minimized, and the simple friction that was probably more responsible for stability than the cavity walls was defeated.

I've tuned a lot of those instruments up with the following non-invasive procedure.

Take the neck off.

Use a cabinet scraper, plane blade, whatever you're comfortable with, to get the bottom of the neck pocket and the bottom of the neck (where the screws come out) perfectly flat so you get fine mating surfaces. I usually use a counterbore to get the screw exit- and entrance-holes chamfered as well. I'm looking for two flat surfaces to "mate."

Back out the set screw that adjusts the "micro-tilt". I leave it out normally, labeled and safely stored so I can put it back if I want to. Some guys leave it in, and gently run it up against the metal disc in the bottom of the neck before re-installing the neck plate and bolts during reassembly. Not too tight, just enough tension to keep it from rattling around.

Bolt the neck back on, getting it aligned correctly and nice and tight. On an older bass, I often replace the bolts with new ones. I also lube the threads with wax.

This should do it. If you have a really sloppy pocket, you can shim the sides of the pocket with trimmed pieces of veneer, and really get the fit to where it should be. You can dye the veneer so it matches the body. Not too tight, or you'll start chipping the finish.

I believe the fit between the neck and body on the bottom of the cavity is most important for tone and sustain, although the sides can certainly provide stability if the fit is right. I always remove the paper stickers Fender puts in there on later basses, and store them by sticking then taping them to a piece of paper stored away with the set screw, original neck bolts, hang tags, what have you. I don't know if I could hear the difference, but I don't believe you can get optimum neck-body coupling with a wad of paper stuck in the joint. I just can't relax knowing it is in there!

If you're not comfortable with any of this, any experienced woodworker should be able to help you get it done in a few hours. Plus, it gives you an excuse to break out a new set of strings! Done properly, this joint should be just as stable as a four bolt arrangement, and your bass is still substantially stock, an enormous plus if these thing continue to rise in price!

[JohnDavisNYC]

cool... thanks guys.

i'm not going to mess with it, although checking out the fit and removing the sticker and the tilt screw sounds like a good idea.

cheers,
john

[Giraffe]

Here's another thread with some fitting suggestions:

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showth...56#post5219956

[202dy]

Originally Posted by tombrien

This problem was greatly exacerbated when guys chose to use the "tilt-neck" feature, because neck-body contact was minimized, and the simple friction that was probably more responsible for stability than the cavity walls was defeated.

I've tuned a lot of those instruments up with the following non-invasive procedure.

Take the neck off.

Use a cabinet scraper, plane blade, whatever you're comfortable with, to get the bottom of the neck pocket and the bottom of the neck (where the screws come out) perfectly flat so you get fine mating surfaces. I usually use a counterbore to get the screw exit- and entrance-holes chamfered as well. I'm looking for two flat surfaces to "mate."

Back out the set screw that adjusts the "micro-tilt". I leave it out normally, labeled and safely stored so I can put it back if I want to. Some guys leave it in, and gently run it up against the metal disc in the bottom of the neck before re-installing the neck plate and bolts during reassembly. Not too tight, just enough tension to keep it from rattling around.

Bolt the neck back on, getting it aligned correctly and nice and tight. On an older bass, I often replace the bolts with new ones. I also lube the threads with wax.

This should do it. If you have a really sloppy pocket, you can shim the sides of the pocket with trimmed pieces of veneer, and really get the fit to where it should be. You can dye the veneer so it matches the body. Not too tight, or you'll start chipping the finish.

I believe the fit between the neck and body on the bottom of the cavity is most important for tone and sustain, although the sides can certainly provide stability if the fit is right. I always remove the paper stickers Fender puts in there on later basses, and store them by sticking then taping them to a piece of paper stored away with the set screw, original neck bolts, hang tags, what have you. I don't know if I could hear the difference, but I don't believe you can get optimum neck-body coupling with a wad of paper stuck in the joint. I just can't relax knowing it is in there!

If you're not comfortable with any of this, any experienced woodworker should be able to help you get it done in a few hours. Plus, it gives you an excuse to break out a new set of strings! Done properly, this joint should be just as stable as a four bolt arrangement, and your bass is still substantially stock, an enormous plus if these thing continue to rise in price!

^^^
Nothing more need be said.