Action/Intonation question

[straightshots]

Hi all,

My bass is cheap Harley Benton HBB400 (I'm beginner)

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_bent...0tbk_ebass.htm

1)I've the following problem (or is it a problem ?) : after tuning my bass to standart, I got slightly off-pitched notes when fretting my 12-th fret. To check that I used a tuner : while open E string pluck gave me perfect "E", the fretted E on 12-th fret gave me approx. +20% higher pitch difference. Same with the rest of the strings...What should I check ?

2)I've read about adjusting truss rod/action, there was a method, suggesting You pressing the E string on 1 first fret and 15-th fret and checking the space between string and fret. According to description it should be tiny, while mine is, I would say is almost 2-3 mm on almost all frets - is that considered "tiny" or not ?

3) Rather stupid question about the bridge saddles : before moving them forward/backward do I need to loose the strings ?

Thanks for your help!

[J.R]

2)I've read about adjusting truss rod/action, there was a method, suggesting You pressing the E string on 1 first fret and 15-th fret and checking the space between string and fret. According to description it should be tiny, while mine is, I would say is almost 2-3 mm on almost all frets - is that considered "tiny" or not ?

That's not considered tiny at all! You can barely sight the gap on mine.
..and no you don't need to loosen the strings to move the saddles. Tune up first, then move the saddles a small amount, and then tune up again and check the tuning of the 12th fret. Repeat.

Although I would suggest that you take it for a pro set-up.

[straightshots]

Originally Posted by J.R

That's not considered tiny at all! You can barely sight the gap on mine.
..and no you don't need to loosen the strings to move the saddles. Tune up first, then move the saddles a small amount, and then tune up again and check the tuning of the 12th fret. Repeat.

Although I would suggest that you take it for a pro set-up.

I see, so that means I have to tighten the truss rod, to get the neck straight...

Also, I really would like to do the setup myself, that's why I've bought the bass so cheap

[krueckschloss]

I have a Harley Benton 6-string and the bad news is that on my bass, the intonation cannot be corrected by moving the saddles. The only solution would be to do new fretwork (that's what the bass tech told me). So, obviously these el cheapos can also give you some bad trouble. I would never buy a Harley Benton bass again. They are not all that bad but if you can't really use it because of wrong setup that you cannot correct, it's wasted money.

[J.R]

Yup, it means that. I hate adjusting the truss rod, but here's some good reading:
http://www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/trussrods.htm
It explains the dangers and some steps that you can take to do it safely.

+ I know what you mean.
Because of my age it's really hard to get the cash for a set-up, although I manage one about every year.

[straightshots]

Well, it's not that I'm totally broke I just like doing all the adjustment stuff myself, its really interesting , and since the bass is so cheap, I'm not really afraid breaking something.

BTW, just adjusted the truss rod, i took me almost a half-turn to get it even, and as it turned out it's still a bit off

[straightshots]

Well, after almost 3 hours (doing that for the first time ever) , I've adjusted truss rod, intonation and string height. The sound is MUCH deeper,brighter, clearer, and sharper now (judging from crappy pups and crappy amp but anyway)

I'm not sure about string height though, tried to level them by adjusting saddles height to form sorta an arc...

It all turned not quantum physics after all But the quality of such basses is truly horrendous, really.

So far I've done all this :

1) changed battery
2) tighten loose input jack
3) tighten ALL the screws I could find
4) adjusted pickup height (still cant get it perfect, because there are no springs on the screws)
5) adjusted truss rod, intonation and string height

The tone/volume kontrol knobs are all chunky and misplaced (It can easily be seen when turning them). Is there any way to properly align them ? The knobs doesnt have screws, they just sit tight, maybe glued ?

Can't say much about electronics, but judging from soldering on pots - badly done, but at least it's all in place, nothing loose/broken. Both pickups work, too.

[Cy_Miles]

Adjustinmg the trus rod is to get the desired relief, and it will affect intonation, NOT to adjust intonation.

First adust truss rod only if you want to change the reilief for your given string choice and personal taste.

Second, adjust saddle height to get desired string height.

Then adjust saddle position to intonate the 12th fret. To do this remember that the shorter a given string is (at the same tension of course) the higher the note will be.

So if the 12th fret is too low the you need to make it higher so shorten the length between the 12th fret and the saddle. If the 12th fret is too high, then make the length from the 12th fret to the saddle longer.

And despite what was said earlier, some bridge designs do requre you to loosen the string to move the saddle. Most don't but I have one that does.

Also, find and read the sticky on Set up.

Frets. com also has a good set of set-up articles.

[walterw]

Originally Posted by straightshots

Well, after almost 3 hours (doing that for the first time ever) , I've adjusted truss rod, intonation and string height. The sound is MUCH deeper,brighter, clearer, and sharper now (judging from crappy pups and crappy amp but anyway)

I'm not sure about string height though, tried to level them by adjusting saddles height to form sorta an arc...

It all turned not quantum physics after all

nice! diving in and messing with it is how you get an idea of what does what.

the "ideal" setup is a neck that's as straight as it can get without going backwards, nut slots that are as low as the frets themselves, and bridge saddles that are just high enough for the strings to ring clearly.

obviously, the cheaper the bass, and the more "energetic" the playing style, the further away from this goal you'll have to settle for.

[Cy_Miles]

Originally Posted by walterw

nice! diving in and messing with it is how you get an idea of what does what.

the "ideal" setup is a neck that's as straight as it can get without going backwards,

I don't quite agree with that.

It is a matter of personal taste, you may prefer a perfectly flat FB, some people put a touch of relief in intentionally.

I try to set mine up with just a little relief on the bass side and no relief on the treble side. (Since the bass side does pull a tad more then the treble side.)


edit +10 on just diving in.

[walterw]

well yeah, i literally meant "ideal", as in not always reality.

for example, .010"-.012" relief is a good starting point for real-world playing. also, the nut slots need to be ever so slightly higher than the frets.

i think of a perfectly straight neck and perfectly low nut slots as a mathematical "limit" that you can get close to but never quite hit.

[Solarmist]

Originally Posted by straightshots

1)I've the following problem (or is it a problem ?) : after tuning my bass to standart, I got slightly off-pitched notes when fretting my 12-th fret. To check that I used a tuner : while open E string pluck gave me perfect "E", the fretted E on 12-th fret gave me approx. +20% higher pitch difference. Same with the rest of the strings...What should I check ?

2)I've read about adjusting truss rod/action, there was a method, suggesting You pressing the E string on 1 first fret and 15-th fret and checking the space between string and fret. According to description it should be tiny, while mine is, I would say is almost 2-3 mm on almost all frets - is that considered "tiny" or not ?

3) Rather stupid question about the bridge saddles : before moving them forward/backward do I need to loose the strings ?

Thanks for your help!

1) Intonation - Tune the bass with the tuner - then check the 12th fret note with the 12th fret harmonic. If the fretted note is sharp of the harmonic - move the saddle back towards the bridge. If the fretted note is flat of the harmonic - move the saddle forward towards the nut.

2) A business card to a credit cards thickness is good - don't bother measuring; you can eyeball that much.

3) No - you need the strings tuned to pitch while setting intonation with a tuner.