Action keeps slowly falling no matter who I take the bass to

Invisible_Kid · #1 07-12-2011, 05:56 PM

Okay, this is really starting to piss me off. A while ago, after I had gotten my bass, my action gradually fell and fell until I couldn't even play the first or second frets. I took it to Baum's Music and the man there fixed it up nice and clean. A while later I noticed this happening again, so I took it to the ABQ Guitar Works, and they fixed the action as well as the intonation. They somehow managed to only raise the action an infinitesimal degree, as mere months later I had to take it to the Pimentel Guitar Factory for a pricey setup.

And now my frets are buzzing again.

What are they doing wrong? What am I doing wrong? How can I fix my action for good, and prevent it from falling again? All help appreciated.

P.S.: I like high action.

stflbn · #2 07-12-2011, 05:59 PM

Raise the bridge saddles. Put lock-tite on the bridge saddle screws.
Typically if a bass is fretting out on the 1st or 2nd (by nut) fret it means the neck is either to flat or backbowed, or the nut is cut to low. When the saddles are to low the strings usually fret out up on the higher notes.

Invisible_Kid · #3 07-12-2011, 06:11 PM

I'm new to fixing my own equipment. How do I raise the saddles, what kind of loctite do I need, and how will this affect the intonation? Thanks.

Invisible_Kid · #4 07-12-2011, 06:23 PM

Here are pics if necessary.

ironrat · #5 07-12-2011, 06:34 PM

Note: use Blue Locktite. Its designed for small screws and low strength. You can also easily remove the screws if needed.

Check the homepage here: http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_l...r-Blue-242.htm

rumblethump · #6 07-12-2011, 06:49 PM

Each saddle has 2 small allen screws that are used for lowering or raising the the saddles. Turn the screws clockwise an they will raise the saddles.

Invisible_Kid · #7 07-12-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rumblethump

Each saddle has 2 small allen screws that are used for lowering or raising the the saddles. Turn the screws clockwise an they will raise the saddles.

Dang, those are tiny. Just noticed them. How much will I need to raise them?

carl h. · #8 07-12-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invisible_Kid

Okay, this is really starting to piss me off. A while ago, after I had gotten my bass, my action gradually fell and fell until I couldn't even play the first or second frets.

Give us pics of the nut.

loend68 · #9 07-12-2011, 06:59 PM

Is the neck going into back bow?

Invisible_Kid · #10 07-12-2011, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carl h.

Give us pics of the nut.

Can do.

Will provide higher resolutions up to 10x if necessary.

Invisible_Kid · #11 07-12-2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loend68

Is the neck going into back bow?

I don't know. How do I find out?

NicJimBass · #12 07-12-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Invisible_Kid

I don't know. How do I find out?

How I normally do it is by sight. I hold the bass out from me, with the headstock close to me and the body extended out. Look down the edge of the fretboard, and you should be able to see if the neck is straight, or has a slight curve in it- if it has a backbow, the middle of the fretboard will be closer to the strings than the ends of the neck... if it's bowed forward, the opposite will be the case. The trussrod is there to counteract the bow, so if it's backbowed, the truss rod is too tight, and needs loosened. Likewise, if it is bowed forward, the truss rod needs tightened.

fenderphil · #13 07-12-2011, 07:10 PM

I had that happen to a bass. I carried it in a gig bag, and it got smooshed one night after a gig. I didnt notice it immediately, but the saddles actually got stripped where those allen screws are. I would raise the action and it would 'jump threads' and slam back to the base plate.

I replaced my bridge and got a hard case, lol

FretlessMainly · #14 07-12-2011, 07:10 PM

Yep, there are three main things to look at here:

1. Nut slots - the first picture in the above post makes it look like things are OK, maybe a bit deep on the slots, but since you indicated that it has played OK, it's likely not the nut;

2. Truss rod/neck back-bow; and

3. String saddles - look at your E string saddle - it's very high on the A string end and low on the E string end (you can slo see how so much different amounts of the adjustment screws are protruding from the top of the saddle). In general, the saddles should be more or less flat - this also helps to reduce screw movement. The loctite recommendation should help in this case. Just get them all level and to the height you want - it's pretty simple, and the worst thing that can happen is you turn the screw past the threads and have to reinsert it. You can really see how the saddles go up and down as you turn the screws. Just make sure you use the correct allen wrench - if your bass is made in Japan, Korea or elsewhere, you may need a metric allen wrench - in the USA, you'll likely need a "standard" wrench.

Lastly, you should see if back-bow of the neck is contributing to your problem. Strap on your bass and finger low F normally. Also finger the highest fret on the E string with your RIGHT PINKY. Now bring your right thumb toward the middle of the E string. Depress the E string as close to the mid-point of the two notes you are fretting and tell us if you can depress the string to the frets or if it is already tocuhing the frets. If not touching, how close is it?

Invisible_Kid · #15 07-12-2011, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

Lastly, you should see if back-bow of the neck is contributing to your problem. Strap on your bass and finger low F normally. Also finger the highest fret on the E string with your RIGHT PINKY. Now bring your right thumb toward the middle of the E string. Depress the E string as close to the mid-point of the two notes you are fretting and tell us if you can depress the string to the frets or if it is already tocuhing the frets. If not touching, how close is it?

It's about 1.5 mm from the 12th fret.

FretlessMainly · #16 07-12-2011, 07:38 PM

OK - on a really well-set-up bass, that might be considered a bit high, but since you said you like high action (as do I), that's fine - in any case, it's not a back-bow issue. The only other complicating factor is if you have some really bad twist or other neck problem down around the first two frets. You should be able to basically see that with your own eyes just by sighting down the neck from both the body end and the headstock end. That ruled out, it's most likely the saddles.

mongo2 · #17 07-13-2011, 04:53 AM

I use clear nail polish on the saddle height adjustment screws.

Invisible_Kid · #18 07-13-2011, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

The only other complicating factor is if you have some really bad twist or other neck problem down around the first two frets. You should be able to basically see that with your own eyes just by sighting down the neck from both the body end and the headstock end.

Thanks, I'll check it out when I get home. One question I still have is if this will affect the intonation, and how to remedy this if it does.

dave_p · #19 07-13-2011, 07:48 AM

the other thing i will say, if you are not going to do this yourself, is pick 1 shop with a tech you like, and bring it to the same place. for continuity sake. if you brought it back to the same guy, he may have figured out your problem by now. instead of having 3 guys start from scratch. i have also noticed that no matter how much background info you give, it is ignored by the tech. they get the bass set up and go from there with no preconcieved assumptions.

JTE · #20 07-13-2011, 09:11 AM

Most likely culprits are the saddle height screws. However, it's possible that the neck is moving and that's causing the action to change too. Without knowing where everything started, it's hard to tell. And taking it to three different guys didn't help with trouble-shooting any.

Thing is wood moves. There's no such thing as "set it and forget it" with wooden instruments. What I'd do if I were you is take to back to the place you had the best relationship with and explain that the action is drifting. Ask them to do the Lok-Tite thing (or clear fingernail polish, or even plain glue). Have them set it up again, and when you get it back the way you want it, write down the following measurements...

Relief- fret the E string at the first and last fret, and measure the distance between the bottom of the string and the top of the 7th fret.

Action on each string at the 12th fret (fret the first fret when you take these measurements just so you don't have to factor the nut into the equation). Again, top of the fret to the bottom of the string.

Distance of each string from the bridge plate. Top of the bridge's base plate to the bottom of the string (again with the first fret fretted).

Then measure the open strings' distance from the first fret.

Write them all down. Then if the action drifts again, go check all the measurements the same way and see what's moved. If the saddles (the height between the bridge plate and the strings) hasn't moved then it's probably the neck moving and you'll see that in the relief measurement.

But build some data of what it is and what's moving. The nice thing about this is that you can use this to learn how to do your own set-ups. Having these measurements allows you to try adjusting the truss rod yourself, with the knowledge that you can return it to where you started (as long as you only adjust one thing at a time).

And I think eventually it's much better to be able to do your own basic set-ups than pay someone to do some basically simple things. Read the stickies on this forum's head, get a copy of Dan Erlewine's "Guitar Player Repair Guide", a few simple tools, and take the time to learn the physics of the instrument. You'll save a lot of money, you'll be able to dial things in where YOU want them, and you'll be able to tell a great bass from a turkey even if it doesn't "play well".

John