Action questions

Wayne8 · #1 12-20-2008, 11:44 AM

I have two questions about string height and pickup height that I can't seem to find through a search.

Firstly, the guy in the store set my bass up with low action and adjusted the pickup height and intonation. He didn't touch the relief at all. The bass is a FSR Mexican Fender Jazz. My ruler doesn't have lines all the way to the ends so I can't say exactly how high the strings are but they are definately lower than what Roger Sadowsky calls low action. The neck is absolutely straight, no relief. I am not experiencing any buzz with either finger style or pick style.

So, first question - is there anything wrong with having a straight neck?

Secondly, Fender's website gives a measurement from the top of the pole pieces to the bottom of the strings on the bass side and a different measurement on the treble side. Does that mean that the measurement should be the same on both neck and bridge pickups or is the neck pickup supposed to be lower? If it's supposed to be lower, how much lower should it be than the bridge pickup? I don't know how much lower but my neck pickup is definitely lower than the bridge pickup.

Thanks.

JTE · #2 12-20-2008, 03:42 PM

First, I ignore FMIC's Mr. Gearhead stuff. I find those setting to be much too high an action for me, and I'm not a light handed player. Put them where they work for YOU. If the neck is just about straight, it feels good, and you're not getting any buzzing, it's golden.

As for PUP adjustments, that's even less subject to fixed measurements. I'll put them where they're balanced across all four strings, and I do like my P bass PUPs a bit closer than Fender's standards. Those specs are just where they put them at the factory so that it's reasonably playable in the store, but they're not at all magical.

jte

Jake of Bass · #3 12-20-2008, 03:48 PM

Yeah what JTE said, if you've got a really low action, straight neck and no fret buzz you're laughing. Might want to double check your intonation after having your action adjusted though, but otherwise you should be really sweet.

With pup adjustments your main consideration is any differences in volume across the strings. If your G is a lot louder for example, I'd drop the pup so it's about the same as the other strings. And vice versa if a string is too quiet. If your strings are hitting the poles but your volume is good, try dropping the pups till they're just low enough and still uniform in volume.

Wayne8 · #4 12-20-2008, 03:57 PM

Intonation's dead on and string balance is good. I guess I'm all set.

Thanks!

unclejane · #5 12-20-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne8

I have two questions about string height and pickup height that I can't seem to find through a search.

Firstly, the guy in the store set my bass up with low action and adjusted the pickup height and intonation. He didn't touch the relief at all. The bass is a FSR Mexican Fender Jazz. My ruler doesn't have lines all the way to the ends so I can't say exactly how high the strings are but they are definately lower than what Roger Sadowsky calls low action. The neck is absolutely straight, no relief. I am not experiencing any buzz with either finger style or pick style.

So, first question - is there anything wrong with having a straight neck?

Secondly, Fender's website gives a measurement from the top of the pole pieces to the bottom of the strings on the bass side and a different measurement on the treble side. Does that mean that the measurement should be the same on both neck and bridge pickups or is the neck pickup supposed to be lower? If it's supposed to be lower, how much lower should it be than the bridge pickup? I don't know how much lower but my neck pickup is definitely lower than the bridge pickup.

Thanks.

Yeah almost invariably when I had the shop I bought a bass from do a setup, I'd immediately do it all over again myself after getting it home

.

As for relief, you want that set to your personal preference. If a typical bass tech saw how I setup my instruments (s)he'd probably have a heart attack first time they looked down the neck or played notes up by the heel. I'd have to Nelson him or her to keep em away from with tools and allen wrenches etc.....

But the general rules of thumb are Less relief (flatter neck) allows a lower action across the whole fingerboard, but also more string slap and buzz. String slap and buzz can be a good thing as well as bad. More relief means higher action generally in the middle with less string slap and buzz. Some players like as little of that as possible and so like to have more relief in the neck, i.e. for a good clear thump for blues etc.

As for pickup height, Micheal Tobias says that for every doubling of distance of the pickup from the string, the volume is reduced by 4. That's actually a lot so you can get quite a variation in volume as well as tone with just a little bit of movement of the PU height.....

My personal preference is to have each pickup as close to the strings as I can get them without the strings slapping the PU. This is kind of trial and error, playing a bit and then monkeying with the height adjust screws a bit and repeat....

I pluck over my bridge PU's so that influences the height of that one as well.

Basically, it's all a matter of preference and not something you normally want to sit down and measure.....

LS

Wayne8 · #6 12-20-2008, 08:27 PM

Great! Thanks for all the input. It's just that everything I've read says you have to have some relief and I thought it was just so the strings wouldn't hit the frets in the middle of the neck and mine don't but I wanted to make sure that was the only reason.
About string height, I've read a few times before folks saying that lower action would affect your tone adversely and I didn't understand how it would, unless your strings were too close to the pickups and the magnetic pull dampened your sustain.
Apparently I have a light touch because I have no fret buzz and it takes no effort at all to fret the strings. Never had a bass with action this low before. For that matter, I've never had one set up before. Big difference!

JustDavid · #7 12-21-2008, 08:26 AM

I try to not have a flat neck, but just barely 'not flat'. Fretting at 1st & last frets, I target 0.010 to 0.015" between 9th fret & string.

I have to dive into pickup heights soon, but I'd judge relative heights more by signal levels than measurements. I'd set up an Active so the balance pot gives minimal change in level, though some might raise the bridge pickup to give a 'lead boost' function when it's solo'ed. I'd set up a Passive so full volumes give me the pickup blend I like, to maximize humbucking.

frankie5string · #8 12-21-2008, 09:49 AM

You could theoretically level the frets to permit buzz-less operation with a flat neck, couldn't you? Perhaps you got a really good fret dressing and leveling?

Zooberwerx · #9 12-21-2008, 11:59 AM

A lot of "flat neck" fans out there but I can never get it to work for me. Zero relief usually requires primo fret leveling, slightly higher string height at the bridge, and higher nut action to prevent back-buzz. Style, touch, and taste all play important parts but keep in mind that we must contend with the physics of a string in motion.

Riis

20db pad · #10 12-21-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie5string

You could theoretically level the frets to permit buzz-less operation with a flat neck, couldn't you? Perhaps you got a really good fret dressing and leveling?

Anthony Jackson is a big proponent of this idea, but he admits it does take a lot of adjustment work to the frets and nut to get there.

Wayne8 · #11 12-21-2008, 12:28 PM

I've not had any work done to the frets other than having the fret ends smoothed up a bit. No leveling or dressing though. Must've just lucked up with a good neck. There is zero relief in this neck and the truss rod's not been touched. I would've said I have a medium touch with fingers and pick but there's no rattling or buzz.

frankie5string · #12 12-21-2008, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne8

I've not had any work done to the frets other than having the fret ends smoothed up a bit. No leveling or dressing though. Must've just lucked up with a good neck. There is zero relief in this neck and the truss rod's not been touched. I would've said I have a medium touch with fingers and pick but there's no rattling or buzz.

Ok, but it's entirely possible that the frets were somewhat leveled to begin with. I recently bought a brand new '62 USA Jazz RI and it's frets are just about perfect for use as a flat neck - and I've got tape wounds on them... It really practically plays itself and I was able to get the action very low with those monstrous strings... Sometimes having smaller frets (ie, not those thick bruisers on most modern basses) really helps too... I don't like the typical frets on most basses (I'm predominately a fretless player) but in the case of Fender, those RI basses use the narrow fretwire - and that seems to make all the difference to me if properly set up.