adjustments for BEAD tuning

AngryGreg · #1 08-24-2010, 05:20 AM

Hi does anyone have any advice on what adjustments should be made to tune a 4 stringer BEAD? For example: I hear often that you may need to adjust the truss rod but nobody specifies wheather to tighten or loosen it. Thankyou in advance!

vaesto · #2 08-24-2010, 05:39 AM

Hi,
If you plan to use 4 strings from 5-string set, then you'll need to file the nut for new bigger gauges. Total tention of BEAD won't differ much from EADG - no truss rod adjustment will ever be needed.
If you downtune EADG to BEAD...Errr, no, bass won't play. Even if you manage to loosen truss rod that much to compensate neck backbow due to loosen strings.

AngryGreg · #3 08-24-2010, 05:59 AM

ok thanks alot! Ill give that a go.

mulchor · #4 08-24-2010, 07:18 AM

The main issue is having the bass stay in tune if you don't adjust your nut so the strings slide smoothly thru.

Any time you make changes in strings, you may need to adjust the set-up. The bigger string tuned down (say going from a 105 E' to a 130 B'') doesn't change the tension a huge amount. Definitely put the strings on and then check relief.

T-Bird · #5 08-24-2010, 11:22 PM

Hi.

Just like mulchor said, every time You change the string gauge, the possibility that adjusting truss rod is necessary is really strong.

If the string tension and the arc the strings vibrate is excactly the same with both strings, the adjustment may not be necessary.

Re-grooving the nut is an obvious "need-to-do" as well as setting the intonation for the heavier strings.

Regards
Sam

AngryGreg · #6 08-25-2010, 08:19 AM

So say that the string tension was different and i did need to adjust the truss, would i need more or less neck relief?

WalterBush · #7 08-25-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryGreg

So say that the string tension was different and i did need to adjust the truss, would i need more or less neck relief?

Assuming I'm reading your question right, you'll want the same amount of neck relief that you had before, which would most likely require you to tighten the truss rod. The heavier strings from a 5 string set are more likely to pull the neck forward, raising your action, than they are likely to allow it to bow backwards.

202dy · #8 08-25-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryGreg

So say that the string tension was different and i did need to adjust the truss, would i need more or less neck relief?

Your question has no answer because there is not enough information to form an opinion. In your hypothetical, is there less tension than the original set of strings? Or is there more tension placed on the neck?

Please read the sticky at the top of the forum entitled, "ALL BASIC SETUP QUESTIONS ANSWERED HERE." Then restring the guitar. You will know what to do when you see the effect of the change. If you need further help, post your findings and someone will help.

rbonner · #9 08-27-2010, 12:00 AM

I went B-E-A-D a couple years ago on my Am Dlx Jazz. I did several things pretty much at the same time or right after one another.

Had the frets Jewelled. This was what we called it 40 years ago anyway. A very serious fret level and micropolish.

I had the bridge replaced with a BAII all these functions were done by my luthier.

Then I got the wild hair up my tail to change the tuning. I play chromes, so I bought a 5 string set.

I went to sears tool dept and bought a fine round file set.

You will wreck the nut and the bridge. I ran the BAII down as far as it would go, and started working the nut.

You need to take it slow I started and finished with the B string. I have it so low that when I just apply pressure it moves up a note. I know how I like my setup, but I don't know the mods to get it there in one shot so I worked it slowly in front of the TV until I had it where I wanted it. Got out my portable tuner and tweaked the intonation, filed the nut and bridge until the strings just fit in where I wanted them. I had to add a second string thimble to hold down the E better in the nut.

If you screw up you'll be replacing the nut.

When you are all done then you'll be balancing the string volumes. I wouldn't recommend doing this unless you really want B-E-A-D or two, YOU really understand bass setup. I thought I did, and I learned a whole bunch of new things.

BOB

AngryGreg · #10 08-27-2010, 08:26 AM

Cheers ill probably get a pro to do it then! dont want to be shelling out for repairs when i can save the money and get it done propper.

Turock · #11 08-27-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WalterBush

Assuming I'm reading your question right, you'll want the same amount of neck relief that you had before, which would most likely require you to tighten the truss rod. The heavier strings from a 5 string set are more likely to pull the neck forward, raising your action, than they are likely to allow it to bow backwards.

You have this backwards. There will be less tension on the neck tuned BEAD.

FunkMetalBass · #12 08-27-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turock

You have this backwards. There will be less tension on the neck tuned BEAD.

It depends on what gauge strings you're using for each tuning.

Turock · #13 08-27-2010, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

It depends on what gauge strings you're using for each tuning.

Yeah? you exchanged a B for a G. Ever heard of a floppy G, how about a floppy B?

FunkMetalBass · #14 08-27-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turock

Yeah? you exchanged a B for a G. Ever heard of a floppy G, how about a floppy B?

You can't operate under the assumption that the B-string will have less tension than the G-string. That's entirely dependent upon the string set.

Turock · #15 08-27-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

You can't operate under the assumption that the B-string will have less tension than the G-string. That's entirely dependent upon the string set.

OK, then show me a set of strings, where when tuned to pitch, a B string has more tension than a G.
Actually, it's pretty safe to "operate under the assumption".

FunkMetalBass · #16 08-27-2010, 01:16 PM

http://circlekstrings.com/store/5-strings.html
Most of Skip's sets actually have a slight decrease in tension as the strings get thinner. In the case of the Balanced 130 set, the B-string has ~35.9lbs of tension and the G-string has only 31.8lbs

The point is, there's no point in guessing what the bass is going to do. If you grab a different set for the B-D tuning that you use for the E-G, you might end up in a situation where the B has less tension than the G would have, but the overall tension is equal or greater than the E-G strings.

There are too many variables to factor in (weak points in wood, humidity, new string tension) to make the presumption that buying a new pair of strings will mean that OP will need to loosen his truss rod.

Hookus · #17 08-27-2010, 02:55 PM

You can always buy strings that have a gauge corresponding to the desired tension.

rbonner · #18 08-27-2010, 10:23 PM

Hey guys, just a little more input...

I used D'Addario Chromes 132-100-80-65 (Flats) I played fretless previous to going back to frets. On the D'Addario website is a string tension guide. This set (a 5 string set) is not perfect tension but it is very close to perfect tension.

I was VERY PLEASED with both the string tension and the fact that I didn't need to adjust the truss on the jazz as things hardly changed.

Now if a guy drop tunes further he will need to adjust the string guage accordingly. To just make the drop to B-E-A-D I can highly recommend the steps I took.

The biggest improvement you can do to any bass is either a PLECK or a Jewell job or both. My frets were a mess even on this very expensive and brand new bass.

Even though we didn't PLECK the thing, my guy spent about 8 hours straight manually levelling the frets and then polishing. He did a great job ($300 including the bridge and a new set of strings) It's too bad a week later I changed the tuning and had to roll up those new strings. ha.

A good Luthier is the trick, or knowing what you are doing.

BOB

AngryGreg · #19 09-01-2010, 09:12 AM

Cheers guys all this string tention stuff is confusing! i was always under the impression that bigger strings would increase the pressure on the neck but this kinda makes sense now. Ill take to a lutheir haha!

Richard Lindsey · #20 09-01-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngryGreg

Cheers guys all this string tention stuff is confusing! i was always under the impression that bigger strings would increase the pressure on the neck

They do--but only when tuned to the same pitch as a thinner string would have been. If the pitches are different, things change. For example, a .130 tuned to E will certainly be under higher tension than a .105 tuned to the same E, but a .130 tuned to B below that E may not be under higher tension than a .105 tuned to the E (IIRC, it will probably be under lower tension).