Advice for Fretless Marks

[bucephylus]

So....we've all had plenty of discussions about visual reference points on fretless basses, but I seem to keep running into situations that create some new dilemma with these things. Is there a more difficult instrument to get right than a fretless BG, I don't know what it is.

Anyhow, so I just purchased this GREAT Zon, which has been owned by a number of TBer's and originated, I think, with Gard. Nice bass. Joe Zon built it with the phenowood board and some REALLY subtle brown line inlays.

So subtle, in fact, that on a dark stage the only visible reference points along the fingerboard edge are the white dots, which are in their normal positions, between the lines. Otherwise, the board edge appears black. Featureless.

So, I rediscovered that I can not play comfortably without marks close to the actual stops. I also figured out that I use the fretline extensions on the edge of the board in the lower positions and shift to looking at the lines on the board above the twelfth fret or so. Don't ask me, that's just the way my brain works.

Anyhow, I tried marking the line position on the board edge with some metallic Sharpie; and that works well enough, but the ink eventually wears off.

So, I'm looking for more permanent solutions. I suppose that a good inlay person could inlay tiny MOP lines along the board edge; but, I suspect that might cost about what I put into the instrument.

Any other ideas? I just want to mark the line along the board edge, really small, but observable.

Thanks for reading!

[Slowgypsy]

More difficult instrument to play than fretless bass? Violin

[bucephylus]

Originally Posted by Slowgypsy

More difficult instrument to play than fretless bass? Violin

No, I meant the construction aspects. I believe they worked out the construction details on violins a while ago. Thanks anyhow.

[harmendebresser]

Hmmm... Have you tried to intonate the strings to your liking? Everyone's left hand technique differs, and it might also have to do with the string gauges. Check out the instructions on Gary Willis' website if you don't know how to go about it. I'm pretty sure you could set it up, without doing something to the instrument that will devalue it's worth (if you ever plan on selling it).

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by Slowgypsy

More difficult instrument to play than fretless bass? Violin

Oh yeah! - no doubt.

Fretless bass is *not* particularly difficult - it's just takes a reasonable amount of the P word - PRACTICE.

[Big B.]

I am surprised that a builder would build a fretless with the dots placed that way. It doesnt seem intuitive as a player. Zon basses are to nice to get rid of just because of badly placed position markers. I have fixed this problem for several friends in the past. It is quite an easy repair and if you dont feel comfortable doing it a reputable luthier should have no problem.
Look on Luthiers Merchantile's website. They carry black & white plastic side markers. Also they carry white, gold and black mop markers in varying sizes from 2mm up. My personal favorite are the white or gold 2mm dots.They also sell drill bits sized exactly for the dots. The bits have a pointed tip so it wont move when you start drilling. They cut amazingly clean holes and should be fine even for a composite fingerboard. It is just a matter of marking and drilling the holes. Just make sure you drill the holes at a 90 degree angle from the fingerboard to avoid oval shaped markers. A very shallow hole is fine, 1/8 inch at most.
Once the hole is drilled a drop of super glue in the hole and slide the dot in. I like to leave a small amount out of the hole so I can trim it at the end but some people just set it flush from the beginning. If it goes in too far just put another dot in on top of it. IMMEDIATELY wipe up the super glue before it can dry. Once the dots have set just trim them with a razor or extremely sharp knife. Go very slowly so as not to cut into the board or neck.You could replace the existing dots with black dots using the same method.
If you dont want to go this route I would just reapply the sharpie from time to time. The fact that it comes off is good thing. The problem is covering the original dots to cut down on visual confusion. Sometimes in very dark places, especially orchestra pits, I have used small squares of glow in the dark tape to mark positions.

[bucephylus]

Thanks for reading and comments. Maybe my post was too long.

I understand all about intonation. The issue on this particular bass is that the fretlines are so subtle, there are effectively no marks at all on the fingerboard edge. Ever tried to play a fretless with no marks at all? I play upright bass also and thoroughly understand position and intonation. Does not translate to EBG. I am trying to find a way to make the stop positions marked. They are, but you can't see them, if that makes sense. I'm trying to add something so I can see the points. Hope that makes sense.

Thanks again.

[bucephylus]

Originally Posted by Big B.

I am surprised that a builder would build a fretless with the dots placed that way. It doesnt seem intuitive as a player. Zon basses are to nice to get rid of just because of badly placed position markers. I have fixed this problem for several friends in the past. It is quite an easy repair and if you dont feel comfortable doing it a reputable luthier should have no problem.
Look on Luthiers Merchantile's website. They carry black & white plastic side markers. Also they carry white, gold and black mop markers in varying sizes from 2mm up. My personal favorite are the white or gold 2mm dots.They also sell drill bits sized exactly for the dots. The bits have a pointed tip so it wont move when you start drilling. They cut amazingly clean holes and should be fine even for a composite fingerboard. It is just a matter of marking and drilling the holes. Just make sure you drill the holes at a 90 degree angle from the fingerboard to avoid oval shaped markers. A very shallow hole is fine, 1/8 inch at most.
Once the hole is drilled a drop of super glue in the hole and slide the dot in. I like to leave a small amount out of the hole so I can trim it at the end but some people just set it flush from the beginning. If it goes in too far just put another dot in on top of it. IMMEDIATELY wipe up the super glue before it can dry. Once the dots have set just trim them with a razor or extremely sharp knife. Go very slowly so as not to cut into the board or neck.You could replace the existing dots with black dots using the same method.
If you dont want to go this route I would just reapply the sharpie from time to time. The fact that it comes off is good thing. The problem is covering the original dots to cut down on visual confusion. Sometimes in very dark places, especially orchestra pits, I have used small squares of glow in the dark tape to mark positions.

Thanks very much. Just the type of info I was looking for.

Perhaps, I may call Joe to discuss with him before proceeding.

[Big B.]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

Thanks very much. Just the type of info I was looking for.

Perhaps, I may call Joe to discuss with him before proceeding.

I thinks thats the best idea anyone thought of yet. Good luck.

[bucephylus]

OK, just got off the phone with the shop. What a bunch of cool cats. This is a known thing. They can inlay small markers; so, that's the way I'll be addressing this.

Thanks all.

[Deathblade Eric]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

OK, just got off the phone with the shop. What a bunch of cool cats. This is a known thing. They can inlay small markers; so, that's the way I'll be addressing this.

Thanks all.

Just a suggestion... ask them if they can do something like this:



When I defretted it I used mahogany for the inlays, figuring they'd be nice & subtle. They are... far too subtle for gigging with.
I did a quick 'n' dirty job with a razor saw & a bottle of Tippex (SnoPake) but maybe your guys can come up with a nicer alternative. As and when I've clapped out the fingerboard I'll spec a new unlined ebony one in this style - I like the idea of | |.| |.| |.| etc. up the edge.

Pete

[bucephylus]

Originally Posted by Deathblade Eric

Just a suggestion... ask them if they can do something like this:

When I defretted it I used mahogany for the inlays, figuring they'd be nice & subtle. They are... far too subtle for gigging with.
I did a quick 'n' dirty job with a razor saw & a bottle of Tippex (SnoPake) but maybe your guys can come up with a nicer alternative. As and when I've clapped out the fingerboard I'll spec a new unlined ebony one in this style - I like the idea of | |.| |.| |.| etc. up the edge.

Pete

EXACTLY! That's what the shop said they would do. Nice job!

[darkstorm]

If I was haveing a custom fretless made Id want to use fiberoptic line embeded in clear whatever is right stuff (lol) for fretboard markers. Then green or blue led to light the fiber optic lines with on/off switch for it. Alternately Id pick glow in dark fretlines. In regular light theyre gonna be offwhite color. For paint suspended in the clear fretline stuff Id use whatever fretlord comp uses in the glowdotz fret markers. Or http://glowinc.com/ ultraVgreen paint watch lume formula. But fiber optic line with led would be better imo.