Advice upgrading early 2000's American Standard Jazz

[LiamWilson]

Long time listener, first time (almost) caller...

I graze the board from time to time and desperate times, as well as inspired times, call for drastic measures.
I'm desperate because I need a bass to call home...everything I have at the moment either feels too beat up, or too nice to have it beat up on the road.
I'm getting ready to go out on tour supporting the Deftones (http://www.deftones.com/tour) in less than two weeks, and I really want to get my old Fender in battle mode.
The main issues are that the bridge is locked up from years of sweat and grime...so I need a new bridge. I was thinking Badass III, but couldn't seem to nail one on ebay, and them things are getting pricey since they stopped producing them. The stock bridge has 3 screw holes, with a string through option, which although I'm not married to the idea of keeping it the same, the least amount of alterations, the better. I'm also considering the Babicz and the Hipshot. I'm leaning more towards the hipshot at the moment because of the 3 hole and price factors.

There are Seymour Duncan quarter pounder BassLines pickups in it now, running passive. I want to run the bass active again since I'll need it to have some extra gain for the kind of set I'll be playing on it. I'm pretty sure I'm going to check out an Aguilar preamp first, I've been digging their stuff a lot lately. I've always liked Bartolini's though?

To Brass Nut, or not to Brass Nut?

....and finally. I want a Hipshot D xTender, but can't tell what the direct replacement would be for the Fender lightweight graphite tuners?

Little...errr, lots of help from my brethren!?

[BigOldHarry]

Bridge: Get a stock fender replacement - one of the newer ones;
Re. electronics - do what you think is right... but those SD's are good p'ups.
re. Nut: Leave be. Brass nut is *so* '70s...

[LiamWilson]

Why a stock bridge?
I feel you on the nut...more than likely wasn't going there anytime soon.

[202dy]

If money is an issue, try rehabilitating the bridge.

Lime-Away contains the same active ingredients as naval jelly. It gets rid of rust.

1. Buy some Lime Away.
2. Remove bridge.
3. Disassemble as much as possible.
4. Put Lime Away in a container large enough to submerge bridge.
5. Put bridge in container.
6. Leave for 15 minutes.
7. Pour Lime Away, bridge, and parts into a sieve.
8. Rinse thoroughly.
9. Disassemble remaining parts.
10. Rinse again.
11. Dry with a hair dryer. Do not skip this step.
12. Put a light coat of oil on screws.
13. Wipe off any residue.
14. Reassemble bridge.

Notes:

It is a good idea to use a wire brush to remove as much surface rust as possible before treatment.

Depending on damage, it may take several tries to completely de-rust the bridge.

Sometimes it pays to replace adjustment screws.

N.B. Lime Away is caustic. It will burn skin. Use rubber gloves and goggles while using this product.

As always, if you are not handy in the extreme, leave this to a pro.

[testing1two]

First of all, congratulations on the upcoming tour.

You're about to engage in some pretty significant experimentation considering you're leaving in less than 2 weeks. I would say do what's necessary and

Regarding the bridge, a stock replacement American Deluxe bridge offers full adjustment range and no change in tone (and they're relatively inexpensive). Adding a high mass bridge will brighten things up somewhat. Fender Deluxe Chrome P Jazz Bass Bridge Upgrade 005-8396-000 - Hallways Open


Regarding preamps, if you like the passive sound of your bass I would recommend a very neutral/natural sounding preamp like a Glockenlang or a Nordstrand. The Nordstrands even come pre-wired so your installation time will be much quicker. Just make sure whatever you choose has active/passive switching in case a battery dies or you decide you like the passive tone better. Also, the concentric knobs that fit on most aftermarket preamps are taller than the stock Fender knobs (EMG and Sadowsky knobs being the exceptions). This could potentially affect your right hand technique but more importantly it could cause problems with the bass fitting in its case putting undue pressure on the knob. This is unlikely with a flight case but it would suck to have a knob snap off while you're out on the road.

Here's the matching D-Tuner: Fender Lite Weight > Store > Hipshot Products

Regarding the nut, brass only makes a slight difference on the open strings and would take considerable effort to fit. Blanks are hard to find and you may experience premature wearing of the E-string slot using the D-tuner.

[walterw]

good advice so far, especially about the excellent stock bridge.

for durability and reliability, i'd think hard about skipping the whole active preamp idea, as it's just one more battery to die in the middle of a show. if you need a boost, how about one on your pedalboard?

you've got the "boron" fender lightweight keys with the black graphite-looking plastic housing? they're good keys, except: the little tension screw opposite the cloverleaf wants to back off and fall out, taking the impossible-to-replace bushing with it.

take out that screw, drip some loctite 290 or clear nail polish on it, and screw it back in, tightening it until the keys turns smooth but not stiff.

[LiamWilson]

Price is not as much of an issue in the realms we're discussing.
I've resigned myself to a certain amount for everything, so chances are I'll replace the bridge before I Lime-Away it - although I have considered it first, and have attacked it with bike chain oil and WD-40 (what was available) and still came up with nothing. The allen screws are stripped etc. I could buy new saddle pieces, but otherwise, I think this thing is toast.
I'm really surprised everyone is recommending a stock bridge replacement.
Do you guys really like those bridges, or is it a purist/cost issue?
I don't mind some added brightness, I kinda want to avoid allen screws/this rust issue going forward (I sweat a lot), which is why I considered the Babicz. If I'm avoiding anything, it may be extra weight, but?
Thanks for the Hipshot advice, and yes, I've already broken/lost one of those tuners, which I why I figured throw a hipshot on now...I'll try that nail polish trick!
As for the preamp...I have a good friend at Aguilar sending me a preamp to check out. I described some of the things I'm looking for, one of which is 3 knobs so I can have my input jack out of the front of the bass instead of the bottom - that inevitably gets in the way of my leg when I stand and 'rock' thus causing imput jack issues down the road. So, for now, I'm going Aguilar - I'll report back on that one. Although battery death is an issue, I plan to be checking that regularly as the tour plows on...I have a few G&L basses with the active/passive switch and I never need to use them, in fact, I never really need any of the switches. I'd consider a pull-pot like my Warwick, otherwise, less is more for this gig.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by LiamWilson

Price is not as much of an issue in the realms we're discussing.
I've resigned myself to a certain amount for everything, so chances are I'll replace the bridge before I Lime-Away it - although I have considered it first, and have attacked it with bike chain oil and WD-40 (what was available) and still came up with nothing. The allen screws are stripped etc. I could buy new saddle pieces, but otherwise, I think this thing is toast.
I'm really surprised everyone is recommending a stock bridge replacement.
Do you guys really like those bridges, or is it a purist/cost issue?
I don't mind some added brightness, I kinda want to avoid allen screws/this rust issue going forward (I sweat a lot), which is why I considered the Babicz. If I'm avoiding anything, it may be extra weight, but?

Bike chain oil and WD-40 are not penetrating oils. (WD-40 isn't a lubricant. It's main purpose is to exclude water vapor from surfaces that can rust.) When they work in freeing up a frozen part it is merely accidental. You would be better served with good old fashioned 3-in-1 oil.

De-rusting a bridge takes between fifteen minutes and a half an hour. Any more than that and it's time to part out what can be easily removed and stow them with the rest of the parts. Toss the remainder. Or you could do what most repairfolk do and keep everything. Turns into quite a heap after a couple of decades, though.

Stock Fender bridges are simple and effective. They are also inexpensive. The rest is a matter of personal opinion and choice.

The cure for perspiration is a towel. It works great on removing the moisture from you and your guitar. Use them often.

[Roundwound]

Plus if you are going to be messing with the electronics of the bass shortly before a big tour, make sure you have a pro do it and set plenty of time aside to test drive - you don't want to find you out you have bad soldering or need other repairs while on the road.

[LiamWilson]

The oils used were what was available...Doesn't really change the fact that the allen wrenches just spin in the sockets regardless...needle nose pliers reversing them out didn't get me anywhere either. The only salvage here is the bridge plate and screws.
I'll certainly settle for simple and effective at the end of the day, but if I'm willing to upgrade, I may enjoy the fun of taking a risk. The extra $40 now won't bother me if in a year I'm still happy.

I agree about the electronics, and the setup in general on such short notice. We'll have a few rehearsals and a warm-up show or two to get the kinks out.
I was planning to take it up to Bass Specialties just outside Philly...I know he's installed a few.

As far as these towels? you speak of...I'm not talking like spicy food sweaty, I mean like, jumped-in-the-pool-with-my-clothes-on sweaty...after a few hundred shows a year, and a few years gigging with the same gear under anything but optimum touring conditions, storage etc. - rust happens. A hair dryer may be more useful.

[testing1two]

I think allen screws are going to be a part of any bridge you choose so it's really a question of what materials and design features you want. If you want to be able to string through the body as well as top load that narrows your choices. If you're a top loader, your tech will love you if you get a quick release design for faster string changes.

To my knowledge, the only bridge that would be a direct replacement and offer both string thru and quick release top loading is the Hipshot A series (string-thru version, available in brass or aluminum). The Badass III is also a direct replacement but no quick release. Most of the others will require drilling new mounting holes and won't have the holes for stringing through the body.

Hipshot: 4 string A Style w/Fender Mount > Store > Hipshot Products

Badass: BB 0336-010


FWIW I really like the sound and functionality of the stock bridge.

[fhm555]

A brass nut might be so 70's, but it won't ever break on you. I have a jazz plus with a brass nut, but only because every plastic, bone, whatever nut put on it broke. I got the bass brand new and the nut broke a couple weeks after that. Took it to a local repair guy who put a bone nut on for me. I broke that the following friday night, took it back saturday and got another bone nut which broke that night. We went through several types of synthetics with mixed results, but they all wound up breaking after a while. My repair guy finally said he was going to try a brass nut on the thing. That was about 18 years ago and so far so good.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by LiamWilson

I'm really surprised everyone is recommending a stock bridge replacement.

I much prefer the stock Fender bridge.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by fhm555

A brass nut might be so 70's, but it won't ever break on you. I have a jazz plus with a brass nut, but only because every plastic, bone, whatever nut put on it broke. I got the bass brand new and the nut broke a couple weeks after that. Took it to a local repair guy who put a bone nut on for me. I broke that the following friday night, took it back saturday and got another bone nut which broke that night. We went through several types of synthetics with mixed results, but they all wound up breaking after a while. My repair guy finally said he was going to try a brass nut on the thing. That was about 18 years ago and so far so good.

I'm not sure what you are doing with your bass, but I've never broken a nut (of any material) in the 30 years I've been playing.

[fhm555]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

I'm not sure what you are doing with your bass, but I've never broken a nut (of any material) in the 30 years I've been playing.

It takes a really narrow neck at the nut and ham fisted playing. The bass in question (Fender US Jazz Plus) was touted at the time as the narrowest neck in the industry and while I've never put a caliper on it and can't remember what the actual published width was, it's the slimmest neck in every aspect/cross section, etc, I've ever played. it is also the easiest bass I've ever played. It's a little funny about extremes of temp and humidity, but otherwise it's my favorite bass. I was also told when I got mine that the pre amp is the same thing used in the Kubiki factor, but I've never owned a Kubiki so I couldn't say if that is truth or sales hype. I know I can dial in pretty much any sound I want with it.
Anywho, every nut that broke on it did so on the outboard side of the G string slot. The string was still supported, but with one side of the string cradle missing it was constantly slipping off.
I don't know if it was the undersized body, delicate neck, or a combination of these, but it was only produced for a few years before Fender dropped it. For reference on body size, check out the warmoth dinky j body. My Fender body is slightly smaller than the warmoth dinky, but they are pretty close.
It's hard to see in the pics, but the distance from the E and G to the outside of the fretboard is very very narrow.

[LiamWilson]

I tried the lime-away. That didn't do anything significant, but it looked cool.
I ended up getting a jewelers saw and cutting the saddle screws off, trading out saddles and screws from an old Squier 4-corner screw bridge. They seem just a hair wider than the original saddles, but they work, no spacing adjustments though.
I guess that'll work for now...Waiting on the preamp.

[fhm555]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

I'm not sure what you are doing with your bass, but I've never broken a nut (of any material) in the 30 years I've been playing.

Another thing I was thinking about was 2AM, It's the last set and your backup bass is snug in it's case in the trailer out in the parking lot...someone trips coming back up for the last set and your bass takes a flip off the stand. A string takes a hit hard enough to split the nut right where that string bears on it. It's still playable, but now you have a string sitting lower than it should be and the more you play it the lower it gets. It starts to buzz real bad about 10 minutes in and only gets worse the longer you go. The crowd is in full on snake dance mode so it takes just over an hour to ease them back down enough so it's safe to quit playing.

WCS no doubt, but I've seen stranger things happen.

If bulletproofing is the goal and the choice comes down to a minor tone difference, I'll take increased survivability every time.

[BigOldHarry]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

I'm not sure what you are doing with your bass, but I've never broken a nut (of any material) in the 30 years I've been playing.

agreed.

See, we *can* agree on *some*things!

regarding the bridge / electronics...

I suggested a stock bridge because the newer Fender bridges are simple & stable, as well as designed to go on THAT bass. Electronics - going on tour, passive is a FINE idea. Active electronics are great, but eliminating one more thing to go wrong (like a dead battery or failed preamp) is smart.

[AHDBassist]

Originally Posted by LiamWilson

I tried the lime-away. That didn't do anything significant, but it looked cool.
I ended up getting a jewelers saw and cutting the saddle screws off, trading out saddles and screws from an old Squier 4-corner screw bridge. They seem just a hair wider than the original saddles, but they work, no spacing adjustments though.
I guess that'll work for now...Waiting on the preamp.

Are the squier saddles pretty stable?

[LiamWilson]

Squier saddles are pretty stable. Stays in tune all the way up the neck.
I may be able to swap some old pickups for a badass with a friend, so I may at least try that and see how I feel.

The passives don't sound right for what I'm doing on tour. I use a lot of gritty distortion and like a hot signal coming right off the bass.
I've been on the road 8/12ths of the last ten years with a decent array of instruments...every time I try to perform 'passive' again, I remember every previous about-face. I love passive in the studio, but live, its not for me, or at least not with this group.
As long as I and/or techs are safely aware of checking the preamp battery every three weeks or so, I can't foresee that being a problem. Battery-powered wireless anything, that's another story.