Am I too stupid to adjust the truss rod?

stranded horse · #1 02-21-2010, 05:07 PM

I want to give the neck a bit more relief, but when I untie the truss rod (counter clockwise) pretty much nothing happens, and I when I keep turning it I just unscrew the nut of the trussrod!
What am I doing wrong?

waleross · #2 02-21-2010, 06:23 PM

Don't let it worry you but check out this link at youtube for bass neck adjustment. I went there for my Steinberger Spirit and I did it without any problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG4BoZ7WHik

Good luck

Zooberwerx · #3 02-21-2010, 06:39 PM

Do you have the strings installed and tuned to pitch when loosening the truss rod?

Riis

Brick Top · #4 02-21-2010, 08:36 PM

I hope you get this answered as well. I tried to get a bit of a bow in my neck on my BB414 today....and the nut just came loose after a 1/4 turn counter clockwise. My strings are way too close to the neck and p/u's after about the 5th fret. I don't think I should have to adjust the bridge saddles up so high to compensate. The sliders on the bridge are already so high they are above the grooves they sit in.

I haven't tightened up the strings hoping it will pull the neck up abit over night.

Eric Moesle · #5 02-21-2010, 10:06 PM

1) Adjust the truss rod with the strings in tune (unless you have a vintage instrument where you have to take off the neck to access the truss rod).

2) Only make the adjustments in small increments - usually not more that 1/4 turn - at a time and wait for your neck to acclimate to the adjustment, usually a few hours between 1/4 turn adjustments.

stranded horse · #6 02-22-2010, 02:43 AM

Eh yes, I have the strings tuned to pitch when I turn the truss rod, and I did this two days ago, that should be enough time for some visible change, but nada.

But I don't think I have turned the trussrod anyways, because as I said, I just untied the nut...

Marley's Ghost · #7 02-22-2010, 04:44 AM

Patience is the key. I adjust with 1/4 turns every 24 hours to allow the wood to move. It can often take 3-5 days for me to correctly intonate a bass.

Zooberwerx · #8 02-22-2010, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stranded horse

Eh yes, I have the strings tuned to pitch when I turn the truss rod, and I did this two days ago, that should be enough time for some visible change, but nada.

But I don't think I have turned the trussrod anyways, because as I said, I just untied the nut...

JOOC, what kind of bass are we talking about here? Pics? How much relief do you have at the moment?

If you've actually removed the trussrod nut (and left it off), there should be no counter-acting force balancing string tension....other than the neck itself.

Riis

stranded horse · #9 02-22-2010, 04:50 AM

It's a '63 Epiphone Rivoli. It has pretty much zero relief. When I press down the first and the 12th fret, the strings are less than 1mm away from the frets.
Then again it is short scale, and has pretty light strings (.40-.90), so the string tension is not so high.

Maybe you could clarify me on this though: Does the truss rod only work actively in one direction (to tighten it), but when you turn it counter clockwise, not the truss rod bends the neck forwards but only the strings?
Does this old wood maybe need longer to work? I think the neck is 3 piece mahogany and the fretboard is brazilian rosewood. All on a 30" scale, if that matters.

And as I said: the strings are tuned, and the truss rod is as loose as it can get since a couple of days already, yet I don't see any more relief. At the moment I can only address the problem by turning the bridge up really high. This leaves the action on the higher frets pretty high, which I can handly because this bass plays so easy, but I get this stupid clacking noise because I have to press the strings down from so high...

Zooberwerx · #10 02-22-2010, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stranded horse

It's a '63 Epiphone Rivoli. It has pretty much zero relief. When I press down the first and the 12th fret, the strings are less than 1mm away from the frets.
Then again it is short scale, and has pretty light strings (.40-.90), so the string tension is not so high.

Maybe you could clarify me on this though: Does the truss rod only work actively in one direction (to tighten it), but when you turn it counter clockwise, not the truss rod bends the neck forwards but only the strings?
Does this old wood maybe need longer to work? I think the neck is 3 piece mahogany and the fretboard is brazilian rosewood. All on a 30" scale, if that matters.

And as I said: the strings are tuned, and the truss rod is as loose as it can get since a couple of days already, yet I don't see any more relief. At the moment I can only address the problem by turning the bridge up really high. This leaves the action on the higher frets pretty high, which I can handly because this bass plays so easy, but I get this stupid clacking noise because I have to press the strings down from so high...

Sounds like you have a good handle on things, espec. the truss rod workings. Its a single acting component which straightens the neck but will not induce relief like today's dual-action rods (btw, the nuts don't come off dual-acting rods). Your string tension is really light, even more so on a 30" scale instrument. This may sound a bit radical but why don't you try tuning up a half step or beyond? The extra tension may get things moving.

Worst case scenario: take it to a tech for a little heat.

Riis

Zooberwerx · #11 02-22-2010, 05:14 AM

Oh, and another thing...

You may want to consider moving to more of a medium gauge string (45-105 or the like) if its within recommended specs for that instrument. This should tighten things up a bit. 40-90's are super light and would be clank-city in my ham-handed grasp.

Riis

stranded horse · #12 02-22-2010, 05:27 AM

I got this baby with really old strings which I replaced right away, but in the store here they only had the Fender short scale strings. But I've ordered some D'Addario EXL160S which are .105 today.

But I really don't want to spend money on a guitar tech for a truss rod adjustment, so I hope the higher gauge strings will bring a change.

JLS · #13 02-22-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stranded horse

I got this baby with really old strings which I replaced right away, but in the store here they only had the Fender short scale strings. But I've ordered some D'Addario EXL160S which are .105 today.

But I really don't want to spend money on a guitar tech for a truss rod adjustment, so I hope the higher gauge strings will bring a change.

Sounds like the neck has backbowed. Id' try heat treating it, if some normal gauge strings don't pull some bow into it.

stranded horse · #14 02-22-2010, 10:40 AM

It's not really backbowed, but straight as an arrow.
How does heat treating work? What is happening to the wood if I do it, and how is it done? Can it damage the neck?

SactoBass · #15 02-23-2010, 05:13 PM

Stranded horse,

With a neck that old, the wood is going to be stiff (which is good for tone) but it will be more resistant to bend than fresher wood.

With a 30" scale, the neck will be more resistant to bending than a 34" scale neck.

With such lightweight, low tension strings (and considering it's a short scale bass which means even lower tension), it is no surprise that the neck is not bowing the way you want it to.

I agree with a previous poster that going with thicker, higher tension strings just might be the ticket for you. And I suggest that once you put those strings on and tune it up, let the bass sit that way for a week or so, and then check for some relief.

Make sure the nut slots are sized to accept the larger diameter strings.

lowendblues · #16 02-25-2010, 06:54 AM

I agree with the slightly higher tension strings.

It could very well solve your problem with minimal cost.

I would certainly try it before heating the neck up.

stranded horse · #17 02-25-2010, 07:10 AM

I've put TI Jazz flatwounds on it now. They are .106 gauge, but still the neck hasn't moved a bit, and I've got the trussrod completely untied since almost a week.
Still I can play the new strings with a much lower action without noise, so for the moment it's alright.

lowendblues · #18 02-25-2010, 08:53 AM

TI strings are great strings, but known for their low tension. You might try some .40 -.100 D'Addario Chromes.

Just a suggestion.

stranded horse · #19 02-25-2010, 09:21 AM

Yes I know. But unfortunately I fell in love with the TI strings as soon as I put them on (uncommon with flats, eh?).
It already plays much better though the neck didn't move. I think I'm just going to leave the trussrod untied and check the neck bow regularly. Should play even better once the neck bows a slight bit and I can turn the bridge even lower.

SactoBass · #20 02-25-2010, 09:57 PM

SH:

I find it interesting that you fell in love with the TI strings. I say that because I seem to run across more and more people who say the same thing about TI strings. I have never tried them myself, but it sure has me wondering if I am missing out on something!

And LEB is correct...TI strings are known for having low tension, so I wouldn't expect too much change in the neck bow with those. But if you are happy, then that's all that matters!