Is any fretbuzz acceptable/normal?

[Kickin'Fruit]

Did a few searches that say to adjust the truss rod/action for fret buzz, but they didn't really answer if a certain amount of fretbuzz is acceptable.

I don't have an amp yet so I'm not sure how much is going to translate through, but I know now playing unamplified I get a good amount of fretbuzz near the bridge end of the neck. How much of this is acceptable? I know I might dig in a little too much. Should my play style be adjusted or should the truss rod/action? Or should I just shutup and wait till I get an amp and see if it's a real problem?

[SGT. Pepper]

Some like the bumble bee sound ala Marcus Miller. Tighten your truss rod a 1/4 to 1/2 a turn if your neck is in good shape and your frets are good, this should alleviate the buzz in the upper register.

[SherpaKahn]

Originally Posted by SGT. Pepper

Some like the bumble bee sound ala Marcus Miller. Tighten your truss rod a 1/4 to 1/2 a turn if your neck is in good shape and your frets are good, this should alleviate the buzz in the upper register.

Good advice, but unless I'm mistaken, fretbuzz in the upper registers (on the higher frets) means that the string height is too low; fretbuzz in the lower register means that the neck is too straight (and should be loosened).

-Stephen

[Dan1099]

If all your playing thusfar has been without an amp, I'd wager you are attacking too hard in order to hear yourself better acoustically. This will hinder your playing in the long run. I'd get an amp, and a teacher, and learn the appropriate way to play (don't worry, you can still play aggresively) and then turn your amp up to an appropriate volume.

[Kickin'Fruit]

Originally Posted by Dan1099

If all your playing thusfar has been without an amp, I'd wager you are attacking too hard in order to hear yourself better acoustically. This will hinder your playing in the long run. I'd get an amp, and a teacher, and learn the appropriate way to play (don't worry, you can still play aggresively) and then turn your amp up to an appropriate volume.

I agree about my attack. I posted a similar question in the technique forum. I do think I play hard to hear myself acoustically. When I play softer (blues scale) I notice I get a cleaner, clearer tone; just can't hear myself that well. Hopefully I'll have my hands on a new amp, just looking to get one used I want (Ashdown <12" for good mids).

[Dan1099]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

I agree about my attack. I posted a similar question in the technique forum. I do think I play hard to hear myself acoustically. When I play softer (blues scale) I notice I get a cleaner, clearer tone; just can't hear myself that well. Hopefully I'll have my hands on a new amp, just looking to get one used I want (Ashdown <12" for good mids).

Cheap trick...When practicing, lightly press your headstock against the wall (drywall). Instant, dirt cheap amplification.

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

Did a few searches that say to adjust the truss rod/action for fret buzz, but they didn't really answer if a certain amount of fretbuzz is acceptable.

I don't have an amp yet so I'm not sure how much is going to translate through, but I know now playing unamplified I get a good amount of fretbuzz near the bridge end of the neck. How much of this is acceptable? I know I might dig in a little too much. Should my play style be adjusted or should the truss rod/action? Or should I just shutup and wait till I get an amp and see if it's a real problem?

Sure, a controllable buzz is as close to a perfect setup as you'll ever get.

By going back and forward between the truss rod adjustment and the saddle heigth adjustment there is a very fine point where all the frets buzz very slightly with a moderate/heavy attack. At that point saddle heigth adjustment alone can remove all buzz or leave any amount of buzz and the bass will have the lowest possible action. As was mentioned, adjust the saddles to eliminate buzzes on the bridge end and the TR for buzzes on the nut end of the FB.

For my personal taste, I like a tiny amount of buzz when I really bear down.

[Kickin'Fruit]

Originally Posted by pkr2

Sure, a controllable buzz is as close to a perfect setup as you'll ever get.

By going back and forward between the truss rod adjustment and the saddle heigth adjustment there is a very fine point where all the frets buzz very slightly with a moderate/heavy attack. At that point saddle heigth adjustment alone can remove all buzz or leave any amount of buzz and the bass will have the lowest possible action. As was mentioned, adjust the saddles to eliminate buzzes on the bridge end and the TR for buzzes on the nut end of the FB.

For my personal taste, I like a tiny amount of buzz when I really bear down.

Okay this is where I get split decisions. I think I want my action low for no other reason than I heard it's a good setup and supposedly makes it faster easier playing? I know that the thickness of a creditcard is good distance between the fretboard at the middle. How crucial is action over fretbuzz? To me, setup of a bass is the most important, because I think it'll have the most effect on your sound and how you learn to play. The last thing I want is bad habits I'll have to break further down the road.

[lonote]

As long as the buzz isn't audible through my amp, I don't worry about it. If you have low action, there is bound to be some fret buzz, especially if you hit the strings hard.

[Figjam]

Fretbuzz in upper registers = tighten truss rod. It is probably exactly what marcus miller does. Gives you a bit of that buzz and funky tone up top. My old Godin was set up like this.

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

Okay this is where I get split decisions. I think I want my action low for no other reason than I heard it's a good setup and supposedly makes it faster easier playing? I know that the thickness of a creditcard is good distance between the fretboard at the middle. How crucial is action over fretbuzz? To me, setup of a bass is the most important, because I think it'll have the most effect on your sound and how you learn to play. The last thing I want is bad habits I'll have to break further down the road.

First off, and this is just one persons opinion.

Using a credit card or anything else to measure a setup is useless unless you are recording a setup that you like or are trying to return to a particular set up. The truss rod is in proper adjustment when you can adjust the action over a normal range of saddle heigths, or actions. In other words, you should be able to adjust the action from very low with a mininmum of fret buzz to high. The only real limitation to how high you can go is intonation probs from stretching the string when it,s fretted.

Another advantage to starting with the strings buzzing equally on all the frets is that any twists or ski jumps in the neck will be obvious. Even points out high and low frets.

KJ, I would start out with the action set as low as you can play it. If you can play it that way and you like it, you're good to go. It'lly probably be so rattly and clanky that you'll need it set higher. Just start out by turning each saddle heigth screw 1 turn. retune to standard and see how you like it. Repeat until you have it perfect for you.

I'll be glad to PM you a step by step of how I do it if it will be any help to you.

PS Don't confuse the truss rod with an action adjustment. It's not. The only true, normal action adjustments are all made with the bridge.

[Kickin'Fruit]

Roger that, I know that the truss rod has potential to break. Also I am finding it hard to measure action radius. I know there are cut out templates that I probably should print out, but uh, the confusion comes to the order I should check these things in. Should the guitar be completely in tune first? Then set action, then last resort the TR? Also does Itonation come into play?

[pkr2]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

Roger that, I know that the truss rod has potential to break. Also I am finding it hard to measure action radius. I know there are cut out templates that I probably should print out, but uh, the confusion comes to the order I should check these things in. Should the guitar be completely in tune first? Then set action, then last resort the TR? Also does Itonation come into play?

KF, I'll be perfectly honest with you. It would really be to your advantage to go to the Gary Willis site that's stickied at the top of the forum.

He gives a good overview of how the adjustments affect each part of the setup. It's really important that you have a pretty good grasp of the mechanics before you make any actual adjustments. As you mentioned, the truss rod can be damaged if you aren't reasonably careful.

Not bailing out on you but I don't want to see you mess up your bass either.

To try to answer your questions: You will have no use for a radius guage in setting up your bass. Yes the adjustments must be made in a logical order and yes, the strings should be retuned to standard pitch after each adjustment. Yes the bridge must be intonated as the very last step in a setup.

[Kickin'Fruit]

Yeah I checked that out before, maybe I just forgot most of it when I made that last post, thanks for the help, I appreciate it

[Turnaround]

Originally Posted by Kickin'Fruit

I know there are cut out templates that I probably should print out, but uh, the confusion comes to the order I should check these things in. Should the guitar be completely in tune first? Then set action, then last resort the TR? Also does Itonation come into play?

Assuming that you have put on a fresh set of strings, then:

Step 1. Tune up. This is critical. If you don't bring it up to pitch before you start adjusting, all the adjustments will be off when you finally tune it.

Step 2. Check the proper setup at the nut. You could do this later - maybe after step 3. If you make changes to the nut, retune.

Step 3. Check the neck relief and adjust the truss rod accordingly. Retune.

Step 4. Check the string height and adjust the saddles to suit. Measure the distance between the top of the twelfth fret and the bottom of each string once the instrument plays acceptably. Generally, there will be slightly more clearance on the lowers strings (B,E,A) then on the uppers (D, G, C). Look for fluctuations in clearance from string to string - a variance other than a gentle decrease in the gap from the low-pitched strings to the higher ones may indicate a fret problem.

Step 5. Retune

Step 6. Adjust the intonation on each string. If you adjust the intonation on a string, be sure to retune it before starting on the next string.

Step 7. Retune

Step 8. Play the instrument - give it a good workout to see if you really like the end result. If not, start over. But start by retuning.

Now if you are using a detuner, such as the Hipshot, you will need to go through this process at least twice, once in regular tuning and once in drop tuning. You might find that you need to work out a compromise.