Any Rickenbacker 4003 Truss Rod Experts Out There? A Little Advice Please?

[electracoyote]

I have a 2002 Rickenbacker 4003

In setting it up, and attempting to get the neck nearly flat and remove almost all relief, I kept running into the following problem:

I coud not get the relief on the bass side (E string) to match the relief on the treble side (G string). It was very close, but still just a bit off.

When I attempted to increase backbow at the bass side, this unfortunately increased backbow slightly on the treble side.

When I attempted to increase forward bow on the treble side to compensate, the truss nut on the treble side came completely loose without the desired effect.

The best compromise I could achieve was a tight rod on the bass side and a very loose rod on the treble side. The relief was very close to the same, the neck was nearly flat, and the bass played and sounded great with low action (5/64" to 4/64" at the 12th fret, little-to-no buzz). But I kept ending up with ever-so-slightly more relief on the bass side.

I know some of you are thinking I should have left it alone, played it, and kept my mouth shut, but my curiosity got the best of me.

So I decided to partially pull the rods, first time ever. Wow, it is easier than I thought.

Long story short, the discovery I think I made is that the bass side rod seems to be bowed, and the treble side rod seems to be nearly straight. I know this because I could easily spin the treble side rod, but the bass side rod would not turn freely. Also, at the headstock, the threaded end comes out perfectly straight on the treble side rod, but at a slight angle (forward) on the bass side rod.

I might also add that I sighted down the neck, and I really can't see that the neck is twisted. It looks perfectly straight to me.

If you're still with me, thanks a lot.

Can anyone help me interpret these observations? Any constructive comments from people experienced in Ric bass truss rod adjustments are most appreciated.

[Ric5]

Some Ric necks don't completely flatten out but still play well, and others are flat with very little tension on the rods. Some necks will flatten out asymmetrically.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Ric5

Some Ric necks don't completely flatten out but still play well, and others are flat with very little tension on the rods. Some necks will flatten out asymmetrically.

Yeah, I think you're right.

I have worked this thing 18 ways, and I still keep coming back full circle to the same dimensions. It plays great, there is very little difference betweeen the bass relief and treble relief, so I'm very tempted to just leave it be. At least the extra relief is on the bass side, where the thicker string and larger string vibration is.

I rehearsed with it tonight, killer tone and cut through the mix. I had to attenuate the pickups at the guitar, it was actually overkill for a little while. I will be gigging it this weekend for sure.

I was just wondering if I should experiment with the field replacement truss rods. They're pretty cheap, but I don't know if they would be an improvement or not.

[walterw]

leave it, you're good.

a twist the other way would have been an issue, but as it is, you could probably get the treble side just about totally flat and still be OK if that left a pinch of room on the bass side.

the dual rods don't really affect twist that much; i would just adjust them both to have equal tension and be done with it. (i'm not really a ric guy, but my understanding is that those rods are just not very strong, which is why rickenbacker went with two.)

[FaithNoMan]

Originally Posted by walterw

the dual rods don't really affect twist that much; i would just adjust them both to have equal tension and be done with it. (i'm not really a ric guy, but my understanding is that those rods are just not very strong, which is why rickenbacker went with two.)

The old rods weren't very strong, on the 4001 basses.

The newer necks and newer rods are easily more adjustable and stronger than most single truss-rod instruments.
It's easy to get adjustment out of my 02' Ric - but I also have only adjusted it a handful of times in the last 6 years since I bought it. The neck is easily more stable than my sturdy P basses' necks.

There's a lot of leftover "bad vibes" and misinformation from the old style truss rods on the early 4001 basses that somehow carried over to the 4003.
Porbably b/c the basses look the same

[Ric5]

Usually the 4003 neck is just flat and a joy to play. But if you get one that doesn't behave you may have to train it into shape. I have a 93 4004 Laredo and I converted it into a 5 string bass and it wasn't behaving properly. But I kept adjusting it 2\twice a year or more and it stabalized nicely. I have another 4004cii converted to a 5 and it didn't want to flatten out either. So when it was dry I tightened down the rods and then when it got humid the wood swelled and it was flatter. I had a 1989 4003s5 and the neck on that bass would flatten out when the truss rods were finger tight.

So every Ric neck is slightly different. The main thing is if it play nice and is comfortable then be happy.

I have owned thirty or so Rics throughout the years. The one with the worst and best neck was my old 1968 4001. When I bought it the action was really high. It was hard to play above the 7th fret. Then I got it adjusted and it was a joy to play. That neck felt really good in my left hand. I could bend it while I played it because it was so thin and weak. That neck never really flattened out but it played great.

The necks on the 60s Rics were under-designed. The necks on the 4003 and 4004 are over-designed.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Ric5

Usually the 4003 neck is just flat and a joy to play. But if you get one that doesn't behave you may have to train it into shape. I have a 93 4004 Laredo and I converted it into a 5 string bass and it wasn't behaving properly. But I kept adjusting it 2\twice a year or more and it stabalized nicely. I have another 4004cii converted to a 5 and it didn't want to flatten out either. So when it was dry I tightened down the rods and then when it got humid the wood swelled and it was flatter. I had a 1989 4003s5 and the neck on that bass would flatten out when the truss rods were finger tight.

So every Ric neck is slightly different. The main thing is if it play nice and is comfortable then be happy.

I have owned thirty or so Rics throughout the years. The one with the worst and best neck was my old 1968 4001. When I bought it the action was really high. It was hard to play above the 7th fret. Then I got it adjusted and it was a joy to play. That neck felt really good in my left hand. I could bend it while I played it because it was so thin and weak. That neck never really flattened out but it played great.

The necks on the 60s Rics were under-designed. The necks on the 4003 and 4004 are over-designed.

Good stuff, thanks.

Yeah, I'm going to play it and enjoy it (I might even gig with it tonight). When I decide to take it out of rotation, I might turn the rods tighter and create a little intentional backbow, let it sit for a while, then see what happens. I know it could be worse, but I have two other 4003's that don't exhibit this symptom, so I had gotten accustomed to Ric fretboards going perfectly flat on both sides with ease.

My other two Rics took literally 5 minutes each to remove relief and set intonation and action to near perfection (what are people complaining about? ). I have a couple of days invested in the third one (oh, now I see ).

First time for everything, I guess.