Asking too much of a MIM Precision?

[punkjazzben]

Hi guys,

I'm having trouble with the intonation on my 2011 MIM Fender Precision.

I bought it in March 2012. A few months back I stopped playing it at gigs because its intonation was all over the shop. I tried and tried and could not get it correctly set - all fine at the 12th fret/harmonic, but everywhere else was out, even down at the first and second frets.

Then I realised that there wasn't enough relief on the neck and the strings were too high, and I thought maybe that was the problem. I'd put a set of LaBella 760FS's on without making any adjustments to the neck - stoopid me. I dig in, so I hadn't really noticed.

So I put the lower-tension stock strings back on (barely played, less than a year old), did the truss rod (it was very very hard to move, it took all my strength to make it budge even a 1/4 turn), set the action, and set the intonation. It wasn't perfect, but I thought I'd let the whole thing sit for a while before worrying too much.

Two weeks on, and the intonation is still all over the place. I've got it perfect at the 12th fret/harmonic, but everywhere else is out by between 5 and 10 cents - more if I play like I would at a gig. I've even used three tuners - bass plugged into one, one on the tuner out of my amp, and one acoustic - to make sure it's not my equipment. I've tried splitting the difference between the 7th and 12th fret harmonics, but it doesn't help.

It's not the string height, as that's down as low as it can go without buzzing. It's not me plucking too hard when checking the tuning either. I've done my best with the witness points, but the Fender headstock design and bridge isn't ideal for getting those nice clean breaks.

Am I asking too much of the instrument? Am I being too pedantic?

I have a $350 Yamaha RBX270J with dead, five-year-old strings on it that I can intonate nearly perfectly in comparison to the Fender. Just feeling a bit frustrated, I suppose.

[BillyIVbass]

You're not asking too much. What's the point of owning a bass that doesn't play in tune?

If it were me I would; ditch the stock strings, some companies put absolutely dreadful stock strings on it, try to intonate it again with new strings. Also take a look to make sure the nut is slotted properly.

[JimmyM]

No reason it shouldn't intonate. It's the same scale as all the other millions of Precisions out there. Stock strings on lower priced models do often suck, though, so I'd bag them. I agree they're your downfall here.

[punkjazzben]

Thanks guys, I hadn't thought that the stock strings could be the problem.

I've slapped on the LaBellas again, did the neck, action, and intonation again, and it all seems fine so far. It's likely that, in the first instance, the problem was too much bow in the neck and high strings. Second time around it might have been the stock strings causing problems.

I'll play it in a bit and see how it goes. Hopefully it was just a strings issue.

[96tbird]

It can only be a string issue and how you install the strings plays a big part. So does action and relief.

The bass itself is of no consequence to intonation. People regularly intonate $179 Squier Affinity basses to excellent results. Intonation is merely a function if the length of the string between stop points and subsequently, fret placement. High action / relief forces you to stretch the string and throws it outta whack.

There is no need to worry about fret placement by the factory, they make thousands of necks with no measurable variations in fret position.

BTW, you have this thread here about one of the most basic things you can know about a bass and on another thread give advice to another guy vis-a-vis his neck. You had best re-think giving advice until you know the basics. Just saying.

[punkjazzben]

Originally Posted by 96tbird

It can only be a string issue and how you install the strings plays a big part. So does action and relief.

The bass itself is of no consequence to intonation. People regularly intonate $179 Squier Affinity basses to excellent results. Intonation is merely a function if the length of the string between stop points and subsequently, fret placement. High action / relief forces you to stretch the string and throws it outta whack.

There is no need to worry about fret placement by the factory, they make thousands of necks with no measurable variations in fret position.

Don't be absurd.

You know as well as I do that intonation is related to more than merely the string itself. The nut, frets, and bridge saddles are all decisive, and neck relief and action also has an effect. You say all of this yourself, despite also claiming that the bass itself is of no consequence to intonation.

[202dy]

Originally Posted by punkjazzben

Don't be absurd.

You know as well as I do that intonation is related to more than merely the string itself. The nut, frets, and bridge saddles are all decisive, and neck relief and action also has an effect. You say all of this yourself, despite also claiming that the bass itself is of no consequence to intonation.

1. Check for witness points at the saddles.
2. Check that the strings break at the speaking point of the nut.

96 is an experienced, steady contributor to this board. His advice shows a working knowledge of set up and repair. One would do well to consider his comments.

[punkjazzben]

Originally Posted by 202dy

1. Check for witness points at the saddles.
2. Check that the strings break at the speaking point.

96 is an experienced, steady contributor to this board. His advice shows a working knowledge of set up and repair. One would do well to consider his comments.

Respect is key on this forum.

The issue has actually been resolved already, thank you. I had already checked the witness points before I posted here.

I've been on TB for long enough to know who is helpful and who is not.

Again, so far the issue has been resolved, and I thank the original responders for their help.

[JLS]

And you were loosening it, for the lighter tension strings?

Something's not right, here.

[JLS]

Originally Posted by 202dy

1. Check for witness points at the saddles.
2. Check that the strings break at the speaking point of the nut.

Emphasis added.

[Joshua]

punkjazzben - Please note that respect is rule #1 here on TB. It is ok to question someone's post, but it has to be in a respectful manner.

And apologies to all for the sloppy deleting - I'm in a rush here at lunch...

[96tbird]

Originally Posted by punkjazzben

Don't be absurd.

You know as well as I do that intonation is related to more than merely the string itself. The nut, frets, and bridge saddles are all decisive, and neck relief and action also has an effect. You say all of this yourself, despite also claiming that the bass itself is of no consequence to intonation.

All these things are involved in the process of intonation. I did not dispute that and clearly said they are all part of the equation.

I only dispute you giving up on the bass as a list cause as per the title of this thread. The bass is not at fault. The mechanics of how you had so far attempted to manipulate the said items are at fault as indicated by you ending up fixing the problem.

Back at you 202dy.

[electracoyote]

The contemporary MIM Standards (from about 2009 on) are outstanding instruments at that price point. I own and tour with three of them, about a dozen have passed through my hands, not a single lemon in the lot.

+1 to attending to the nut slots, not only proper angle and break points, but slot depth/width as well. Failing to do this will screw up intonation as bad or worse than any other factor.

PS--I've only seen Fender strings from the factory on the contemporary MIM Standards. Maybe not your cup of tea, but I wouldn't call them cheap or say they suck. Certainly not the kind of thing that would impede intonation.

[Joe Louvar]

Unless something is broken the intonation should be easy to setup and right on - if you’re having problems I highly recommend having it professionally setup.

[punkjazzben]

As I mentioned in my very first post, I set the witness points and checked the string breaks. Also, the nut is fine. The issue had been identified by post four - it was the strings, and a different set are working out better. I wouldn't have thought the stock strings were so bad, but they seem to have been the source of my problems here. We'll see how it's going in a few days or so, anyway.

Originally Posted by 96tbird

I only dispute you giving up on the bass as a list cause as per the title of this thread. The bass is not at fault. The mechanics of how you had so far attempted to manipulate the said items are at fault as indicated by you ending up fixing the problem.

I can set a bass up just fine, thank you, and if it were not for the strings (which I had not considered before posting; they don't really seem like a poor quality set otherwise) it would have perfectly reasonable to wonder if something wasn't right with the bass itself.

As a final point, however, If we are going to talk about due respect I'd like you to explain this highly presumptuous comment:

Originally Posted by 96tbird

BTW, you have this thread here about one of the most basic things you can know about a bass and on another thread give advice to another guy vis-a-vis his neck. You had best re-think giving advice until you know the basics. Just saying.

[96tbird]

Moly, you wanted to toss the bass out when it was strings like I said. You said you tried everything. Turns out you didn't try strings; only as a last resort and bingo. I stand vindicated.

As for my btw its true as this discourse proves. On the other thread your comments were conjecture at best.

[electracoyote]

Well, I guess I learned something. I've set up three of these, brand new out of the box with the stock Fender strings, spent no more than 20 minutes on each, and they intonated perfectly.

In fact, the factory strings are still on two of them.

Oh well. What do I know.

[punkjazzben]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Well, I guess I learned something. I've set up three of these, brand new out of the box with the stock Fender strings, spent no more than 20 minutes on each, and they intonated perfectly.

In fact, the factory strings are still on two of them.

Oh well. What do I know.

That's precisely why I didn't think of the strings; I can't remember hearing any complaints about the ones that come stock. Nevertheless, the LaBellas are intonating correctly while the stock ones are not, so I must have just been in the unlucky minority. JimmyM and BillyIVbass might also have had a bad experience, perhaps.

[johnson79]

Some folks are a little overly sensitive...

[JimmyM]

I've had strings that didn't intonate before, sure. Not always shop strings, either. But when it happens on a Precision, it's a pretty sure sign the string that won't intonate is fried.