B string intonation/action

GregDunn · #1 07-27-2010, 11:00 PM

I recently bought an Ibanez SR645 (couldn't pass it up at $100) and am greatly enjoying having a 5-string for certain songs. Of course, the first thing I did was check tuning/intonation before I took it apart and cleaned all the hardware, oiled the fretboard, etc. I noticed that the B string intonation was WAY sharp. The other strings were OK, and the saddles ended up about where I'd expect them to, but the B is nearly all the way back.

A side effect of this is that the B string breaks very sharply over the saddle, even with the saddle almost as low as it can go. Action is really about what I'd like it to be on all 5, but I'm concerned that I'm about out of adjustment room on the B. No, I haven't replaced the strings yet, because I wanted to make sure the instrument could be set up and played to my expectations first.

So, a picture below (this is before cleaning; after cleaning, I ran through the setup again and it didn't noticeably change). Can I assume that putting new strings on it will help the intonation issue dramatically (as opposed to slightly)? Am I putting undue stress on the B at the saddle?

I suspect yes, and yes, but would appreciate any observations the setup gurus might wish to share.

T-Bird · #2 07-28-2010, 12:26 AM

Hi.

Do You see an EADGC tuning in the future?

If not, I'd move the bridge back as much as the G-string saddle prevents.

You could also relieve the stress a bit by filing or drilling the hole a bit to align with the string better. With "normal" strings You'll run into trouble sooner or later though as the uneven winding at the end of the string usually goes much farther than in the string You have in there now.

Tapered-, or exposed core B-string is a very good alternative as well.

Old strings won't intonate correctly as You already knew, so there's no telling in what direction the saddle moves with a fresh string.

Regards
Sam

TwinBass · #3 07-28-2010, 12:35 AM

Give tapered strings a shot. I did and it made intonation/setup a breeze for me (stingray5). After an initial setup and a few subsequent tweaks, my bass plays better than every single other bass I've picked up. Ever. No lie.

maurilio · #4 07-28-2010, 12:54 AM

press down, right in front of the saddles, the B, E and A strings and re-do/check action and intonation.

I don't wanna go into details, but it is obvious (from your pic) those strings are not installed properly....

M

VinKreepo · #5 07-28-2010, 01:25 AM

Had the same problem on my Ibby with the G string, except it was extremely flat... new strings solved that problem

Zooberwerx · #6 07-28-2010, 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maurilio

press down, right in front of the saddles, the B, E and A strings and re-do/check action and intonation.

I don't wanna go into details, but it is obvious (from your pic) those strings are not installed properly....

M

Roger that. Set your witness points as above and re-check intonation. A tapered B string will intonate forward of what's now pictured.

Riis

FunkMetalBass · #7 07-28-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maurilio

press down, right in front of the saddles, the B, E and A strings and re-do/check action and intonation.

I don't wanna go into details, but it is obvious (from your pic) those strings are not installed properly....

M

I feel as though I'm missing some very important aspect of the OP's picture. Care to elaborate?

GregDunn · #8 07-28-2010, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

I feel as though I'm missing some very important aspect of the OP's picture. Care to elaborate?

Me, too. Though I didn't install these strings myself, all I can see as a possible issue is the compression of the windings (which I have tried to relieve during the tuning/setup by lifting and freeing the strings, then stretching them over the witness point).

And no, this bass will remain BEADG, but I don't want to move the bridge unnecessarily - if new strings are likely to resolve this, that's a cheap fix.

I like the idea of tapered strings; I'll definitely hunt down a set.

Zooberwerx · #9 07-28-2010, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FunkMetalBass

I feel as though I'm missing some very important aspect of the OP's picture. Care to elaborate?

After the B string makes contact with the bridge saddle, it continues to arc upward. We should be seeing a sharper delineation / break. This can be accomplished by mashing down the B string just forward of the bridge saddle.

That's my take on it but I've been wrong before...just ask my wife.

Riis

Ric5 · #10 07-28-2010, 08:51 AM

Remove the strings, then remove the bridge. Install the bridge 1/4" to 1/2" back. Re-install the strings. Set up the intonation. The old screw holes will be hidden by the bridge plate.

FunkMetalBass · #11 07-28-2010, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

After the B string makes contact with the bridge saddle, it continues to arc upward. We should be seeing a sharper delineation / break. This can be accomplished by mashing down the B string just forward of the bridge saddle.

That's my take on it but I've been wrong before...just ask my wife.

Riis

Ahh, yes, that makes sense. It's minor, but definitely enough to cause the intonation issues.

GregDunn · #12 07-28-2010, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

After the B string makes contact with the bridge saddle, it continues to arc upward. We should be seeing a sharper delineation / break. This can be accomplished by mashing down the B string just forward of the bridge saddle.

That's my take on it but I've been wrong before...just ask my wife.

Riis

I see what you're saying. I'll definitely try that when I get home.

JLS · #13 07-28-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maurilio

press down, right in front of the saddles, the B, E and A strings and re-do/check action and intonation.

I don't wanna go into details, but it is obvious (from your pic) those strings are not installed properly....

M

+1

VroomVroom · #14 07-28-2010, 10:31 AM

First, the important stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

That's my take on it but I've been wrong before...just ask my wife.

Kudos. And if I did such things, this would be "sigged" in a heartbeat.

Second, for whatever they may be worth (meaning: the words below and $5 will get you a foo-foo drink at Starsucks), here are my thoughts.

- Replace the strings. Nothing like fresh strings anyway, so this is a good investment on a new-to-you bass. Lots of options out there with a tapered 'B' string, which is where I'd start. (Even though the advice above about seating the string is excellent, why have that variable in the equation if you can remove it?)

- If and only if (or IFF, for my fellow low-noters that took a Logic class in college) you can't find strings that will (a) intonate and, (b) work for you sonically...consider moving the bridge back by ~ 3/8" or so. At that, do so IFF you (a) really consider this bass to be a keeper, and (b) can confidently complete the task yourself or know someone who can.

Good luck and enjoy the bass!

GregDunn · #15 07-28-2010, 04:27 PM

Wow - that made a huge difference. I loosened the B string, pressed it firmly over the saddle making sure I had all the stretch out of it, and did the setup again. I was able to move the saddle about 1/4" or more closer, and even raise it a bit like the others. My action and intonation are spot on. I went through the other strings of course, and the E and A improved slightly.

I'm comfortable with putting new strings on now; should be no problem. Thanks, all!

@VroomVroom: LOL. 4 years of advanced math, Boolean and Calculus; I concur.

And for any other math geeks reading:
Q: What's purple and commutes?
A: An Abelian grape.

maurilio · #16 07-28-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

Roger that. Set your witness points as above and re-check intonation. A tapered B string will intonate forward of what's now pictured.

Riis

+1

maurilio · #17 07-28-2010, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

After the B string makes contact with the bridge saddle, it continues to arc upward. We should be seeing a sharper delineation / break. This can be accomplished by mashing down the B string just forward of the bridge saddle.

That's my take on it but I've been wrong before...just ask my wife.

Riis

+1

maurilio · #18 07-28-2010, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregDunn

Wow - that made a huge difference. I loosened the B string, pressed it firmly over the saddle making sure I had all the stretch out of it, and did the setup again. I was able to move the saddle about 1/4" or more closer, and even raise it a bit like the others. My action and intonation are spot on. I went through the other strings of course, and the E and A improved slightly.

+1, though, I do that with the strings at pitch.
Do the same at the nut and your intonation will be perfect.

That's what happend to most of the people who complain they have trouble tuning their strings, of course even more on the B (and E)

M

GregDunn · #19 07-28-2010, 08:05 PM

It was nearly impossible to flex the B string with it at pitch; I needed a bit of slack to get it to conform to the saddle at all. The string is almost perfectly level now coming off the saddle and nut, and I have a pretty good break over the nut toward the tuners.

But this was more of a test anyway, since now when I put new strings on I'll get it right from the first and know it'll work.

Incidentally, this is the second used bass I've bought where the strings were wound the wrong direction round the tuner posts. Apparently some people have trouble remembering which way to turn the tuners on a 2x2 or 3x2 headstock, so they're willing to compromise the string path over the nut in order to save a moment of thinking...