Badass II bridge saddles

Bur · #1 03-19-2013, 03:52 AM

Hi, men! Looking forward to buy Badass II bridge for my p-bass, and I see two different types of it on e-bay: with grooved & with flat saddles... So, I'm in hesitation what to choose. I'd like to buy used one, but they all got grooved saddles. Is there any advantage of having flat saddles, so paying the higher price would be justified. Can someone explain the benefit of flat saddles? Or are those just for custom grooving? Just can't imagine that saddle should be flat. Thanks!

Low Sound Love · #2 03-19-2013, 03:58 AM

The flat saddles need to grooved or slotted to ensure your strings stay put. The advantage of buying the saddles untouched is that you can file the grooves to your custom string-spacing, or to match your pickup-poles exactly.
If you're gonna put the bridge on a Jazz or Precision, you might as well buy the slotted bridge.

Bur · #3 03-19-2013, 04:03 AM

Oh, just found the multi-grooved Badass bridge and it costs about 40$ more against flat one, so, it seems flat ones are really for custom finishing...

Bur · #4 03-19-2013, 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Sound Love

The flat saddles need to grooved or slotted to ensure your strings stay put. The advantage of buying the saddles untouched is that you can file the grooves to your custom string-spacing, or to match your pickup-poles exactly.
If you're gonna put the bridge on a Jazz or Precision, you might as well buy the slotted bridge.

Yeah, thanks, I went to similar conclusion in the end, just got rushed with starting a new thread... Bought the used black one with factory grooved saddles for 60$ a minute ago... Think I didn't miss...

mogpipe · #5 03-19-2013, 04:31 AM

In mother Russia, you don't file saddles,.....saddles file you!

Bur · #6 03-19-2013, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mogpipe

In mother Russia, you don't file saddles,.....saddles file you!

Yeah, and make you a real BADASS!

So, Leo Quan gives me a great opportunity to take one more bridge with flat saddles & have my revenge!

bass_tech · #7 03-19-2013, 07:28 PM

We now have an upgrade to the original saddles. They will work on the II or III bridges.

http://badasssaddles.bigcartel.com/p...le-upgrade-set

They are machined from brass.

walterw · #8 03-19-2013, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass_tech

We now have an upgrade to the original saddles. They will work on the II or III bridges.

http://badasssaddles.bigcartel.com/p...le-upgrade-set

They are machined from brass.

looks awesome, but why are they all backwards?

bass_tech · #9 03-20-2013, 06:18 AM

Indeed.

I will correct that shortly. Thanks for looking.

bass_tech · #10 03-20-2013, 05:33 PM

OK,

The saddles are now on correctly.

http://badasssaddles.bigcartel.com/p...le-upgrade-set

bass_tech · #11 03-20-2013, 06:00 PM

btw,

If given a choice, would you buy a pre-slotted saddle, or one you had to slot yourself?

Thanks.

walterw · #12 03-21-2013, 01:10 AM

as a player, i'd like pre-slotted so i could slap them on and go.

as a tech, i'd prefer un-slotted so i could put the slots in exactly the right place myself.

how about a third option, one which i never see: "correctly slotted"! the pre-slotted ones often have too coarse a selection of grooves, to where you can't really get the strings equally spaced and over the pickup magnets.

how about a single slot per saddle, but with the correct spacing for jazz basses, which is not .75"! i see all manner of fancy aftermarket bridges with this too-narrow spacing (babciz, gotoh, hipshot, etc)

it's a little wider if you want to actually line the strings up between the pickup magnets, like this:

not a tonal deal-breaker, but it would be nice if somebody could get this right out of the box for once.

i guess it would mean spec'ing 4 different saddles (2 left, 2 right, then inner and outer).

walterw · #13 03-21-2013, 01:20 AM

for that matter, you might have an un-tapped market for regular round fender saddles out of that cool brass, either totally unslotted, or made with wider than .75" slots for correct pickup magnet spacing.

i imagine you could do a single saddle that had two separate and slightly offset grooves, one on each side, for "inner" and "outer" placement; that way 4 identical saddles could be installed on a vintage fender bridge, flipped and mirrored to create the slightly wider spacing.

bass_tech · #14 03-21-2013, 08:10 PM

Walter,

I'm usually more interested in making sure the strings are spaced across the fretboard correctly, while the spacing across the pickups is secondary, as I find even if the pickup spacing is a little off, the output is not affected that much.

Regarding the pre-slotted saddles, I'm thinking of offering those as well. As you've no doubt seen though, the pre-slotted saddles have only 3 grooves in them, and although it would be nice to have more, the physical limits are set by the diameter of the largest string. So 3 is about all you can physically get unless you machine each saddle individually, which of course would increase the cost somewhat. I think that is why they all have only 3 slots.

walterw · #15 03-21-2013, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass_tech

Walter,

I'm usually more interested in making sure the strings are spaced across the fretboard correctly, while the spacing across the pickups is secondary, as I find even if the pickup spacing is a little off, the output is not affected that much.

i hear a little difference, but only when the pickups are set closer and you hit harder (both of which i do). there's a little natural compression of the initial attack when the string is right in that gap between the magnet pairs. hell, that was one of leo's patents!

besides, if the saddles create the right string width for the pickups, it's just a matter of setup to get them to be right for the edges of the neck as well.

finally, it just looks right, which (let's face it) does matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass_tech

Regarding the pre-slotted saddles, I'm thinking of offering those as well. As you've no doubt seen though, the pre-slotted saddles have only 3 grooves in them, and although it would be nice to have more, the physical limits are set by the diameter of the largest string.

yeah, that is a limitation, especially with the shallow break angle of the badass II bridge.

the grooved saddles in my example pic have more slots, but they have a way steeper break angle holding the string down too.

gerry grable · #16 03-23-2013, 03:36 PM

I hope this isn't too OT. I'm usually on the DB side, but since I used to play a lot of BG, I often visit and enjoy reading your stuff. I tore my rotator cup and can't play upright right now, but to my delight I recently discovered that I have no problem extending my arm horizontally with my Fender Jazz Bass. I have a 1969 with a Badass II, I had installed in 70s or 8os.
Today I decided to try an experiment. I had read the on-going discussions on Badass vs. Fender bridges and quite frankly thought that, other than looks, there was no difference between them. Steel strings stretched across steel saddles and (in my case ) a brass nut. Duh? Right? But was I wrong! Today I dug out the old bridge, that I luckily saved along with the pick guards, from a junk drawer, cleaned it off and re-installed it. Since the BA was perfectly in tune, I measured the distance from the center of the mounting screws to the front of the saddle of each string and adjusted the horizontal length appropriately on the old bridge. I screwed the height adjuster screws so that the round saddles were flat on the metal--as low as they go. I had to use a regular screw for one that was lost. (It looks like a freaking mushroom growing out of the bridge

I replaced the same strings that had been on the bass (round wounds of some forgotten brand?). I tightened up the strings and adjusted the height until there was no buzz and it "felt right." I tuned it up and noticed that the strings were significantly lower than the with BA. Great! I had wanted to lower them, but was too lazy and a little apprehensive to file the saddles down on the BA. My formally mentioned measurements were pretty close. I only had to slightly adjust the lengths of the E and A strings to get the frets and the harmonics perfectly in tune. But here's the kicker! I plugged back in to the little GK 200MB that I had been playing earlier with the BA still installed without touching the settings and the old girl just opened up. The sound was brighter, cleaner and louder. The lower (height) strings made it (seem?) easier to play. I now have to agree with the traditionalists ( particularly a member who, years ago, gave me lots of info on my Jazz Bass. I think he used BurningSkies as his sign-in ? He was right!) on the BG side. I wish I had gone back to the original bridge years ago.
Please excuse my intrusion on the BG side. I hope I haven't bored everybody. For now, until I get my shoulder fixed, I'm one of you.

Gerry G

bass_tech · #17 03-23-2013, 05:54 PM

Somebody thinks there is a difference. No one can keep the BA bridges in stock, and some pretty hefty players insist on them; Geddy Lee, and Marcus Miller just to mention a couple.

gerry grable · #18 03-23-2013, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bass_tech

Somebody thinks there is a difference. No one can keep the BA bridges in stock, and some pretty hefty players insist on them; Geddy Lee, and Marcus Miller just to mention a couple.

I wrote a very long post regarding my earlier post and more experiments and measurements I have subsequently made, but lost the whole damned thing just as I was going to post it. I hate when that happens! I'm not going to write it again, but here is the gist of it.
It wasn't my intention to put down you or the gorgeous Badass bridge, and I apologize if I offended you or any BA fans. I simply wanted to share my "revolutionary discovery"

(Remember I'm an upright player and am ignorant of many of the technical aspects of BG). However, with more thought, I believe that the change I experienced was caused by more than simply the bridge itself, i.e., the string placement --height-- and "that gap between the magnet pairs" ( walterw). My BA may have been cut wrong; I seem to recall that the strings were not in the middle of the magnets. They are now with the original factory installed Fender Bridge. Anyway I'm sorry, and I think those golden saddles are beautiful. Good luck with your endeavors.
Sincerely,
Gerry

walterw · #19 03-24-2013, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerry grable

I tuned it up and noticed that the strings were significantly lower than the with BA. Great! I had wanted to lower them, but was too lazy and a little apprehensive to file the saddles down on the BA.

But here's the kicker! I plugged back in to the little GK 200MB that I had been playing earlier with the BA still installed without touching the settings and the old girl just opened up. The sound was brighter, cleaner and louder.

i suspect that the big difference you heard was from the lower strings now being closer to the pickups!

pickup distance makes a huge difference, while bridge variations are more subtle in result.

HuntYouDown · #20 03-24-2013, 03:05 AM

Both of mine are pre slotted. I can't imagine them where you have to file the grooves yourself. Sounds like a money making scam. Just saying, they are fine with the factory grooves, why be that much extra of a dork and file them yourself.